Bill: That conversation here.

Marty: So we're talking about restructuring a coaching practice, namely yours to be more aligned with what would you say your desire or.

Bill: Your how about my zone of

Marty: genius? Beautiful. Your zone of genius.

Marty: Excellent. And so 1 of you just said the 1st thing I want to do is I want to make the commitment just for 1 month. They can always renew if the client decides this is working for me and I want to renew. And so that led me to just check in about. Okay. Is that because. Of that, that works better for you.

Marty: It puts you more in your zone of genius or is that because, something on the client's end that's not working out that would be served by being in a longer term commitment. That's what I was just checking that out. Is this just because I know. I say things to my client, like to my prospects, I should say.

Marty: I say things like the commitment is for six months. And the reason is because it's all about habits. Dismantling ones that don't work building ones that do work and that takes time. You don't establish a habit in 4 hours. It takes a while. And so we need to be working to that. Same thing with a sports coach.

Marty: You don't just go and have, one or two, sessions with your trainer you work out with them for a while. And it helps build the right habit. So I come into this conversation thinking doesn't it serve the client to be in a longer term commitment?

Bill: Yeah, that makes sense.

Bill: That, that helps. And I'm, as I'm listening. As much alike as you and I are on our values and our philosophy about coaching, it's similar to the conversation earlier in this conversation where I pointed to the previous client of mine, who then became a coach shares with me the idea that. Anyone is going to do so much better in life if they can experience life as their true authentic selves, right?

Bill: The difference is for him and I, that his approach to helping to get to true authentic self is dramatically different than my approach. And I wouldn't say that the differences between you and I are dramatically different, but there's some differences. For example, I wouldn't say that for me, coaching is about habits.

Bill: As far as I can see for sure that it is absolutely for you about habits and about changing habits. And that's certainly not a criticism of you and your approach at all. Your approach is highly effective. You've been coaching twice as long as I have. The biggest difference I would say that I recognize between how your approach and my approach is that I use the IFS model.

Bill: I'm trained in the IFS model, which is a therapy model. And and it is a compassionate approach that has. The facilitator me in this case is coach and the client get curious about. What is currently so and why the results that the client currently are? Why are they why is the client getting the results they currently getting?

Bill: Some curiosity about that. Those first four hours would be about certainly it wouldn't be about any of that yet It would be about what is it that you want coaching to help with? And hopefully they would answer that question the same whether they came to my previous client Who's now a coach or to you or to me or to any coach?

Bill: I'm coming to coaching because I hope it will help me accomplish this. Where we go as coaches from there and how we approach that and support our clients is where we start to diverge and have different approaches and ways of going about that. I'm just saying, I think in the first four hours that we'd have together, the client is going to have a lot of clarity about what they hope to accomplish in coaching and problems that would be solved if they could accomplish that.

Bill: That's

Marty: That's very much like the first four hours that I had spent with a client

Bill: too. And at that point, they're going to, they're going to also know the scope of the work that we're going to do together. Now, they'll know the scope of the work because they'll understand that my approach is that I believe that the reason the client, one of the reasons the client isn't getting the results that they want already, well, certainly is because they didn't have the clarity that now they have.

Bill: Yeah, it's those four hours together. Sure. But also because so much of what happens is unconscious and this aligns with your habit but what we do about changing those habits might be a little bit different approach. Would you agree?

Marty: I'm not sure. I don't use the IFS model, but. Some of the habits are, and this is one of the things that I think is a hallmark of the way I coach. Those habits are mental as well as physical, they are spiritual as well as emotional as well as. Material. So they're they do exist on all levels.

Marty: So there is, and yeah, they have to be pointed out like a part gets pointed out and then we look at, but I don't use the IFS model. So I'm not sure, yeah, how does that land?

Marty: I know. What were you thinking of when you said that?

Bill: I don't know that I had a predetermined answer to that. I asked if you agreed and as you answered, I realized. There's agreement, and then there's not agreement in your answer. Yeah. What I was saying was that our approach is distinguished at that point.

Bill: Once we've established what it is that the client wants to accomplish in coaching, how we help them is different in several different ways. But both, maybe what's in common is that we both help the client see what they haven't been able to see. Yes, we help them move what has been unconscious to what is conscious now, how I perceive and then talk about with my clients, what has been operating in the unconscious automatically.

Bill: The language might sound different. In fact, I know it does when you talk about what has found in the unconscious and then made conscious the language that you use and then the approach that you help to modify and then before you put it back into the unconscious again, the language that you use and the approach that you use to update or reconfigure that information before it lands back in the unconscious is a slightly different Slightly different approach.

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: Yes. I think that whole part of coaching right there is what IFS and your adaptation of it to coaching is brilliant at way above the level of sophistication with which I deal with that part of the whole coaching relationship, but I've been, I've learned, I've let me, I'd like to know what the other changes are that you see that you want to make to be more in alignment with your highest and best purpose.

Bill: One of the things that I just felt so much.

Marty: What's that? That wasn't the way you put it. You didn't say you're well, it's fine though.

Bill: The way you asked it is great. Okay. Yeah. My zone of genius is what I said. Genius. Yes. My highest and best purpose. Absolutely. I'm not going to find myself in that zone of genius unless I am on that parallel, at least a parallel path to my highest and best purpose.

Bill: No doubt about it. That's been my experience and I've formed a lot of my own philosophy around that experience that when I can show up as my true authentic self, then I have access to resources that I don't otherwise have access to. And those resources enable me to be creative. To be intuitive, to know how to align and connect with people and so it gets back to things I've said in earlier episodes that's why I'm so devoted to doing my own work so that I can, as much as I possibly can be a be my true authentic self.

Bill: Whether I'm coaching a client or just interacting with my wife or grandkids or whatever's going on in life and just tossing

Marty: a beanbag into a cornhole.

Bill: Exactly.

Bill: Nice form, by the way. So you asked what else is changing for about 2 years now. I have had the idea that I want to form groups and with the idea that if I could form groups, then I could help more people. However, what I have found, especially with the IFS model, is that unless the purpose of a group. Is to learn how to use the IFS model, then groups, it's very difficult to keep everybody on the same page moving in the same direction at the same time as they're

Marty: boring deep into themselves, but not each other.

Bill: That's exactly right. Now there's a lot of really successful IFS groups out there that are facilitated by either therapists that have been trained in the IFS model or practitioners that have been trained in the IFS model, whose main focus is to help people learn how to use IFS in their own lives to heal and alleviate suffering.

Bill: And whatever else the objectives might be from using the IFS model, that in fact is what I did for at least two years after my initial training. But what I came back to recently, I'd say in the last year and a half or so was my strength, my zone of genius happens when I'm being a coach, not when I'm being a therapist.

Bill: and I never have claimed to be a therapist, but I acted as a therapist would many times with my coaching clients because that's what I had just been trained to do. . I saw these amazing results where people began to heal to heal to get a lot more clarity about who they were and who they weren't.

Bill: They'd suffered far less, but I am where I wanna be is at now. What, where I wanna be as a coach is now What? There's this healing that can be done, there's this suffering that can be alleviated. Now what? And I'm, so I'm less interested in teaching people how to use the IFS model to alleviate suffering.

Bill: Yeah. I want to let other people that, that really have that be their zone of genius, let them do that. I want to be the guy that they come to once they've done enough of that, where they're saying, so now what? Now, this can't be all there is. I'm not suffering anymore. Awesome. That's great. Now it's this extra energy and all this clarity.

Bill: What, how do I point that? What direction do I want to point all that energy in? So for now, I don't see a path being able to offering groups in a way that supports everybody in the group in a way that serves them. I believe that really the path for me right now is to do two things. One on one work.

Bill: I'm going to work with individuals, which I've been doing all along, one on one. And secondly, I'm developing online courses so that people can go through and learn how to use the IFS model at their own pace, but then also apply that IFS model in practical application of their life when they get to the now what spot.

Bill: Okay. Yeah. So there's a lot more clarity about that. And you and I first began to talk about when I hit record was that it's new territory. Here's 1 of the reasons that I want to only ask people for a 4 session commitment up front because it's brand new territory. It's new. How can I possibly know if I'm a potential coaching client or an actual coaching client that I'm going to want to continue past four weeks?

Bill: Number one it's really expensive. Number two, it's brand new. I don't know if it's going to work or not. It sounds fantastic. It's great. However, is it going to work? Am I going to be able to do the work? Is it going to be more than I can handle? Is it going to, is it going to dig deep into the crevices of my past that I've done such a good job of shutting away and not having to ever deal with?

Bill: Thank you. open Pandora's box. Let me just get to four sessions into it. Let me get clear about what it is I would want in my life. If I could make these changes, let me get clear about what problems would get solved and let me get clear about what would be possible if those problems were solved and then decide, do I want to continue with coaching?

Bill: And if yes, then I'll schedule another appointment. And as the coach, I'd like to just give my clients access to those four days a week. Between eight and five Monday through Thursday, and if they can find a time that works for them and that works for me, we coach together. Okay. Sounds so simple. It takes up so much pressure off me and off of them.

Marty: So that move from a longer term commitment that takes all that pressure away. It

Bill: does for me. And that's great. And for the clients that. That do complete with coaching. Sometimes they're working their way through that last. Let's say they've got 5 or 6 sessions left remaining in their commitment.

Bill: When I get to the point where I recognize they're trudging through that and they're having a hard time forcing themselves to come to the sessions because they're only coming because they made the commitment. I recognize that we have to do a reset. It's time for us to reset objectives.

Bill: Yes. Yes. If it weren't for your commitment, would you continue with coaching? No. Why? Because it's too much work. Okay. If it's feeling like too much work let's take a look again at your objectives and my approach. And see if there's a way we can adjust to support you and getting what you want.

Bill: Or if we can't do that, let's just end the commitment now. So I'm doing that anyhow.

Marty: So do those 2 criteria, does that sort of bring a sense of wholeness and motivation to you and your practice that wasn't there?

Bill: It does. It does. Brings a lot of clarity, a lot of inspiration and motivation.

Bill: Like you, I've always got a million things that I can be doing in between coaching clients. And in one of our sessions, when you coached me, we talked about, how relieved I was when somebody canceled the session. Because that opened up an hour that now I can work on that, Mount Everest stack of things to do.

Bill: Yeah. But now that I brought about, now that I have developed the clarity that I need to identify what it is that I want to do, how I want to help my clients, how I want to deliver those services. Now it opens up the question then how do I get the word out about what it is that I'm doing and how I help people?

Bill: And that's a lot of that stack of to do's.

Marty: I see. Yeah.

Bill: Yeah. It minimizes that stack. What are you going to call these groups? Oh, I'm not doing groups.

Marty: I thought you said that was one of your, the things that you've been wanting to do is now what groups

Bill: I was going to need to say groups. I meant to say now what clients people that get to the point where they've done enough healing. Oh, they're no longer suffering. And they're saying now what I want to be that guy.

Bill: I'm sorry. I

Marty: must have misunderstood. Okay.

Bill: Got it. I'll have to listen to the recording. I might have said groups and I misspoke if I did. So thanks for pointing that out.

Marty: No worries. Yeah. Wow. It's great to feel the difference in your energy. I could tell you're like, okay, I've got some clarity here that I can

Bill: run with.

Bill: That's right. But to answer your question, it won't be groups, but it will be called self led coaching. And the reason it's called self led coaching is self with a capital S in the IFS model is the stand in for true authentic self.

Marty: Yeah. Great.

Bill: Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for that.

Bill: Thanks for the conversation. It helps me flesh it out a

Marty: little bit more. It raises an interesting question for me. I don't, we don't need to go deep into this necessarily, but I have always. Attracted clients that wanted, they just want, they want to stay around for years and I don't know why that is necessarily.

Marty: I might be able to make some stab into the dark of explanation for that, but. sO there's just a different there's a there is some difference there for sure the way that we coach that and both are great. I don't it's not a criticism of myself or you, but it is interesting that those are the ones that I rarely.

Marty: And people don't come to me. It seems like it's probably an over, it's, I shouldn't put it like in an absolute, but on the, for the most part I get people who wants to have somebody to talk to every week for the next, however many years we don't even know and they stick around.

Bill: And I have clients like that as well, but not as many Marty, as you do.

Marty: Yeah, and there are like those re upping moments with them those moments where we do go. Okay. So we finished that or that's pretty complete. Let's recommit is what are we going to work on now? If anything, we do have that sort of cleansing moment. And, but.

Marty: I'm not sure what that is. Maybe I attract people who want more like a therapeutic conversation. I'm not that I'm offering therapy, but the structure of it somebody I can rely on to talk to what, every week, whatever's going on maybe the, and maybe it's got something to do with the way that I talk and market that I attract those people.

Bill: Not everybody that you talk to hires you, but those that do hire you like the way that you talk and listen

Marty: very good point. Most I was looking through some old files the other day of prospect conversations because I take copious notes. And even a prospects of was specially prospects. And I was just like, wow, look at all these people who did not hire me a lot.

Marty: So you're right. You're right. It's about the people who hire me.

Bill: That's correct. Yeah. Brooke Castillo used to say this about that. And probably still says it. She is the woman who created the life coach school and out of Texas. I think she was in California when she created it. Now she lives in Dallas, Texas.

Bill: Last I heard. And she has hundreds and hundreds of coaches that are going through her coach training programs every year. She's highly successful. And I learned about her when I was learning to be a coach. And I looked up in an Apple podcast. I just did a search for coaching. And I found Brooke Castillo, the life coach school, by the way, to any listener that's listening to this.

Bill: Now, I highly recommend it. She's got a great process, very cognitive, very logical for working through any kind of a problem. And I was very inspired by her. She and I were very aligned, but she used to say I'm a peach and some people just don't like peaches. It's not. Yeah. You're a

Marty: peach, Marty.

Bill: People that don't like peaches.

Marty: And you're a nectarine.

Bill: That's right. We're closely related, but we're not the same. You go over more fuzz than I do.

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: So you said that brings up a, an interesting question that you have all these clients that have been with you long term, I don't know if it was a question or a point. But that is a

Marty: distinction. The question for me was like, how, why is that?

Marty: What is it that it's got something to do with the way the exchange in those, from the moment they see my marketing to the end of the gift session where we got to talk for the first time, they are getting the impression and some of them are choosing it and some of them are choosing it not that this is going to be, a long term relationship.

Bill: tHey get value. That can, that's the only thing it can be. Marty, you should agree that the only thing that can possibly explain why they're long term with you is because they get value overall. They see the relationship they have with you. What they're spending for it in time and money as a good return on investment, what they're getting out of it is a good return on their investment or else they would not continue it.

Marty: Sure. Sure. Yeah. So what is the value that our listeners are going to get out of catching us in the middle of this conversation?

Bill: sOme of our listeners are shopping for coaches. Some of our listeners are wondering what is this coaching thing? oTher listeners are going to be fellow coaches.

Bill: That find our conversations interesting and helpful. So the value is going to be determined by the listener and why they're listening in the first place. Yeah, I don't know. In other words, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.

Marty: I think just to go back then to like the internal part of this conversation.

Marty: I think, it's helpful to look because I know when I use other sorts of practitioners, like lawyers and physical trainers and massage therapists Yeah.

Bill: Doctors, financial

Marty: advisors. Exactly. All these kind of people, like there are some of them with whom I want a long term relationship.

Marty: Yes. And I can rely on and go to, and there are others I just want in and out. Like just do your magic and I'm, I'm off. And so it's, you want to look at that. If you're looking at coaching, you want to look at that and see because, I know coaches who say, look, it's part of life.

Marty: You either it's either something you take as part of your life. You're going to be in coaching basically the rest of your life because you see the value in that or, it's something you just want to drop in and get a little. clarity or inspiration or organization and then get out. And so that's something to really consider as you go into coaching and to discuss with your prospective coach, what is the kind of relationship that you're looking for?

Bill: Exactly. Exactly. And that may change. From the moment that coaching begins to the moment you make the decision that you're complete, you've had enough coaching from this particular coach and you're ready to move on. That may change. You may think I just want to solve this particular problem.

Bill: I'm coming to coaching because I have this problem. It's a big deal. Let's say, for example, it's something that's going on in my business. I'm in business. I can't, I got into business for this reason. Once I got into business, I began to have this experience and found out. Boy, business isn't what I thought it was.

Bill: So now I need to make a decision. Do I sell my business, shut it down, or grow it? But something needs to change. Let's just say that's the objective. So that client is going to work with that particular coach until A, they either solve the problem or B, they're convinced that this coach can't help with that.

Marty: And then they get to decide, do I want to keep doing this or not? So let's talk a little bit about that. What does that mean? It might sound very foreign to some listeners. Like, why would you decide you want coaching to be a part of your life? Like, why would you do that? Save the money, save the time, just get the problem fixed and go out, get back in the world.

Marty: Yeah. That could, I don't know if that's pervasive or not, but for me, just to self report here,

Marty: cause I was not a part of the coaching world at all. And then I discovered it and it, and I decided that I wanted it to be part of my life. And one way to keep it a part of my life is to do it, and part of the reason I did, I made that choice was because I saw this journey of being a human being, is just, it has infinite problems to solve and infinite solutions to consider and to enjoy.

Marty: I never I don't see myself running out of, things that I want to discuss with somebody, who can help me see myself in relationship to the, the issue or the project. I Want to always be. qUestioning myself and in a good sense. I don't mean, I don't mean like self doubt like living in self doubt cloud, but I want to always have some perspective on myself, to like, just to know like even in, in, in swimming, which we've probably mentioned that's my major form of exercise.

Marty: You can fall into bad habits that you don't notice. And then somebody says why are you throwing your arm that way? Isn't that less hydrodynamic than if you were to throw it this way? And you go, Oh thank you. That helps. And you notice you can go faster and get more laps in and it's more exhilarating.

Marty: I just I have not come to that day yet. And I've been doing this for 25 years where I feel like, Oh yeah, I know it all now. I don't need any new and new perspectives. It seems every week on a whole new pile of things that I want to bring to my coach comes up. So I just said, I want to be living a life where I'm always working on myself.

Marty: I want that.

Bill: I'm with you, Marty. Absolutely. My story is slightly different. I had heard of coaching before. And to me, it was a joke before I finally found a coach who was a professional and knew what he was doing. He had the really unfortunate experience of hiring a coach who agreed to work for me in exchange for lunch once a week.

Bill: And I might've paid him 50 bucks a session and bought him lunch and we would do coaching over lunch. And to him, what coaching was accountability. And there was really no consequence and no way to know where to go. If I didn't do what I said that I was going to do the previous week. And that was all of coaching.

Bill: Did you do this? No. Did you do that? No. Did you do this? Yes. Did you do that? Yes. Okay, great. What are you going to do this week? This, and this. Okay, talk to you next week. That's what coaching was. And to me, I guess there was some help in that. Just telling somebody what it was that I was going to do.

Bill: And what I did or didn't do. And know that somebody was going to ask me. That was somewhat helpful to me. It's very helpful. Yeah. And but when I say it's a joke it was a joke. That I, I thought of coaching as limited to just that I didn't realize that coaching could be more than that.

Bill: Uhhuh and I was stretching myself to pay the guy 50 bucks for a session and to buy his lunch. , I'm not sure if I'm really getting the value to match this $62 and 50 cents that I'm spending every week to meet with him. This guy. . So I, I did it for a short period of time and and then I just didn't do it for a while.

Bill: And then I met Carlos Jones, my first coach. And realized, Oh, there's a different caliber of coaching out there. This guy is a professional. He's been trained. He asks me really challenging questions that have me really consider who I am and what's true about me. Questions I don't, I've never even considered asking myself questions like, do you believe everything you think?

Bill: Questions like that, and I thought, Oh, this, now this is inspiring. And I hired him on the spot to coach me once a week and I coached with him like for two or three years before I moved into something else. So here's the difference for me. I have been let's say, let's use your same terminology working on myself since 1982, November 15th.

Bill: That's how long I've been working on myself. The form that working on myself has changed over and over again. It started with a 12 step program specifically created for, to help people who are identified as alcoholics. Notice I didn't call it by its name. I also, and I continued in that for 35 years, still sober to this day.

Bill: Thank you very much to that 12 step program for getting me started and really supporting me for those 35 years through the process. I also got involved in its How do they say it? The other program that is for the people that support the alcoholics that are loving, that love the alcoholics for about six years, I got involved in another program that supported people like me who grew up in alcoholic families, also 12 step.

Bill: And I got involved in another program that supported people like me who were codependent. There might've been another one in there somewhere, but that's pretty much, in other words, 12 step programs were a big chunk of my support for five years. I was, I started my first therapy session.

Bill: I had my first counseling slash therapy session in 1984. And so have been involved in therapy off and on since then. So now that's almost a 40 year journey. I've been into in different kinds of trainings that improved or helped or sharpened. Me in whatever skill set that I needed to be improved in When I was in the grocery business, I was going through trainings when I was in the car business.

Bill: I went through training Business when I was in the mortgage business and certainly since i've been a coach So that I consider that all self improvement personal development personal transformation I got involved with landmark education. I got really involved in the work of byron katie and off and on I alternate between trainings, coaching and therapy now for the past 13 or 12, 13 years now, since I hired Carlos as my coach, but like you, I'm involved in personal development.

Bill: It's just not always the same coach. And it's not always coaching that I get involved in. Yeah,

Marty: I like that way of saying it rather than working on myself, personal development. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. fOr me it's, as I've said before, on this podcast, it comes from a spiritual place. Until I feel like I am completely one with God, there's work to do on me.

Bill: Isn't that cool? I, in, in one of those 12 step meetings, I heard myself say, and I repeated it after that because I realized how inspired I felt to say it and how inspired others were to hear it that, something that happened in that 12 step program was that the longer I was sober, the more respect I had just simply because I had remained sober all those years.

Bill: Yeah. If I were to walk into a meeting today. I would certainly be welcome because I qualify and if somebody asked, is anybody celebrating birthdays and on November 15th of this year, I raised my hand said 41 years, they would be bowing down at the altar of bill because. I've earned all this credibility for being sober all these years.

Bill: But in my opinion, it's not the length of sobriety that qualifies me as either working a good program or someone to be admired or to replicate. What it is the quality of life that happens. Once I've walked into the waiting room of recovery, which means sobriety, if I get sober, that puts me into the waiting room for recovery.

Bill: It's just a waiting room because I've got to walk through another door. And that's the, develop the ability to become self aware. I can be sober without being self aware. Even if I'm working all the steps, I proved that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But once I had done that, once I walked through that door of recovery, that is actually when my personal transformation journey began.

Bill: And I'm not embarrassed anymore to say this, but that didn't begin until I was 20 years sober. I was 20 years sober before I walked through the door. Sure. It's a different,

Marty: it's a whole different level of self development.

Bill: So what I said in that meeting, all of that to say this. Was that if getting this far gets me to base camp and the goal is to climb to the top of the mountain, I'm looking up at the top of the mountain from here and I'm also looking back at the journey I took to get to base camp and I'm saying, wow, this is great.

Bill: If I've gotten this much benefit from this journey so far, what's it going to be like to get to the top of the mountain? And like you, I don't believe I'm ever going to get there. I hope I never do. Honestly, I can't imagine how I possibly could because the journey has been so amazing. Yeah,

Marty: It's when there's, it's like one of the, one of my top values is adventure.

Marty: One of my top 10 values is adventure. And that's part of the reason why is because you're always discovering and learning. And so being a human being who's in self is, committed to self development is, it's an adventure. There's always something new. To discover and implement and be held accountable to it's in and I love it,

Bill: but Marty, it's so hard.

Bill: I'm just saying out loud what I used to hear my own voices say, but this is what I've heard the people that I sponsored in that 12 step program say, oh, this is just too hard.

Marty: It's it is hard in a sense. Just to summarize my response to that. I could say a lot of things about that, but.

Marty: And, or we could do coaching around that because that's a huge ontological thing in the obstacle there, who you're being about it. But putting all that aside, look and see if it isn't taking you a lot more effort to stay where you're at, then it would to let

Bill: go to answer that question. I love it.

Bill: I love that suggestion. It really wasn't a question. It is. The question is, how much effort is it? It's taking you to stay where you're at and how much effort would it take to let go. Did I hear right? Yeah. Yeah. I know how much effort it's taking to stay where I'm at. I don't know how much effort it would take to let go.

Bill: I'll go with what I know. That's the stuckness. Maybe in 12 step, which is referred to is not yet hitting bottom stuckness remains until like standing. I had a client telling me yesterday. This literally happened in my client's life. He said they, they went to a place on vacation and there was a bridge. I think it was even over the English channel.

Bill: There was a bridge. That's some distance above the channel that people climb up on and jump off of it's a, it's like a thing that you have to do when you go there and like I, this would have been my experience for sure he found himself there on top of that bridge at the highest point ready to jump down into the channel, but not really quite ready.

Bill: He was in the stuck place. I see he was in the place where fear was saying, oh, but yeah, but, oh, this could. Oh,

Marty: I want to 1 more attempted to come back here. Yeah, please. And then I will let go of this, but. So having planted that question, there is a question like, is it more effort to stay where I am or more to go?

Marty: I got it. You don't know because you haven't tried whoever's, listening and asking that question hasn't seen the other side, but I'm going to turn it into a, an actual promise because that my experience is that The more coaching I get, the better coaching I get, the easier it is to be alive and successful and to face the inherent challenges of being a human being and dealing with other people and producing results.

Marty: It just gets easier and easier.

Bill: That's the promise. That's the promise. Good coaching. It gets easier and easier. Yeah. It's been my experience. Yeah. What a great conversation. I'm so glad I hit record. No, me too. Anything else you want to say before we say goodbye to our listeners and watchers?

Marty: No, thank you.

Marty: I'm complete.

Bill: Me too. Thanks, Marty.