Bill: Well, Marty, here we are. Season two, believe it or not, we have completed 42 episodes. And so there's no demarcation that makes the difference between 42 and 43. There's nothing significant about those numbers, but what has changed is that we've decided to change the name of the podcast itself, condensing it from not your typical leadership coaching podcast to leadership coaching podcast. We thought, well, if we're going to change the name, let's change the intro and the outro. So, listener, you may have noticed there's a different intro, some different music than what we've had. You might have noticed that we've got a different, uh, image, uh, on, on our page. So that, and on Apple or Spotify or wherever you find us, the visual is different. So, um, yeah, I'm excited that we're starting season two, and this will be the first episode. Of season 2 probably will be episode 43 and you had a great idea. First of all, hi, Marty. Marty, this is Dr. Martin Kettelhut and I am Bill Tierney. I'm a certified IFS practitioner and results coach and Marty is a leadership coach who just wrote a book. And the name of that book is Leadership as Relation. Got it? Okay. You have an idea for today's discussion. Why don't you introduce it?

Marty: Well, the idea comes from a lot of conversations that I'm in and that I'm reading about. That the challenge, it has to do with the challenges that we face as leaders in an attention based economy. What's the attention based economy? Well, whether we're talking about Um, your marketing efforts or your networking online, or even, you know, when you watch TV in the evening, uh, these are all run by what's been referred to in a number of circles as the attention economy. Like, it's all about. Grabbing people's attention, like being, being the ad on TV that grabs people's attention. It's not the ones that they've seen a hundred times or, you know, they just go, go to the bathroom or get a beer during, but the ones that they stay to watch, um, or, um, sustaining it, you know, on your phone. We're all just flipping, flipping, flipping, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. How do you keep somebody on your podcast or on your, uh, blog grab and keeping their attention? So it's an attention based economy in that sense. And, and unfortunately where it's left us all is rather distracted

Bill: because

Marty: we are inundated by more information. And the average person is inundated by an enormous. I don't have a statistic for you, but it's thousands of times more information than somebody in our position 25 years ago was. And so we're very distracted. And that's why the attention economy came about. Like, how are we going to get people's attention in all this distractedness? And then. The leader walks into a meeting on Monday morning in the conference room and everybody's on their phones or jibber jabbering or just can't sit still and you've got to grab their attention be their leader, right? Or keep it over time. Like, right. Uh, a lot of a lot of companies are not sitting in the same room with their employees every day. And so where is their attention when they're home working? And how do you keep it on their work? And how do they work with? So I think there are 2 main places where I see that this is challenging. 1 is keeping us in a flow mentality. It's easy to get, you know, to get out of the flow and into the rocks on the side of the, of the river and to getting back in the flow, and then being able to do really deep work. I mean, some work, you know, you could show up on Monday morning, having, you know, Gotten wasted Sunday night and basically push some papers around or, you know, make a few phone calls and you'd get by, but there's a lot of work. We need to really get focused in order to be able to do and it produces a different quality of work when we can do that. So. Those are the challenges I'm talking. You

Bill: know, Marty, it sounds like you have really put a lot of thought into this and I love it. I'm just shooting from the hip, babe. Are you really? Are you really? So I'm curious though, have you had a recent experience that is a good example of, Maybe the challenge for you personally in being able to get and keep people's attention.

Marty: Um, well, give me a second. I was thinking I was mostly, you know, I, I tend to funnel all my clients concerns, but I was talking to a young man this morning who is not a client yet. And. Uh, he, he was dealing with this issue, um, in his own way, uh, he's a little bit of a nice guy. I mean, this goes back to some of our early episodes when we were talking with, uh, glove Glover about no more Mr. Nice guy. And so his attention goes to the things this gentleman I'm talking to this morning goes to the things that are going to. Make other people happy, please them. Oh, thank you for getting that done. Um, you know, we really need this now. Please do this now. And so he's completely letting his attention, he's not like in charge of his attention. He's giving it wherever somebody says they need it. And so he's suffering right now because he's not producing what he's really hired to produce.

Bill: And it sounds like he understands, or at least you, you understand, and maybe we're able to help him understand a little bit that the reason that he's suffering, the reason that he's not able to produce what he's, what he's trying to produce is because his attention is going in places that aren't getting the results that he has been tasked to achieve or that he himself wants to achieve.

Marty: Right.

Bill: And so he's suffering.

Marty: Yeah. He's also just had two babies. Uh, he and his wife, you know, as soon as they had their first, they, they produced another baby. And so that, you know, at home, it's kind of wild too. Yes. Yes. But, um, another place that I ran into this was I went to a party, um, on Saturday night, a friend took me, um, these are all successful millennials. A group of like 30 to 36 year olds, all of them doing very well job wise. Um, and I was, I was really noticing that. Like the, the enthusiasm to be together amongst these kids. I mean, I'm calling them kids because I'm twice their age, but they're not kids. Um, and I was really curious about how, like, the, the energy in the room between them. And I mentioned it to a couple of them when I got to talk to them and, and they said, yeah, well, we live in this world of phones and computer screens and. you know, uh, they were mentioning different software that they use at work to keep in touch with their team and stuff like that. And so the, several people told me like, we love that. You know, this group of us gets together and has a face to face. We eat together, we talk together and it's so refreshing. So I kind of saw, you know, The penumbra of this, this group's dealing with attention and how that pushes them into really enjoying and appreciating when they can be face to face.

Bill: Yes. Yes. You know, I think COVID really, uh, made us hungry for that because so many of us changed the way that we work from face to face to on, on screen and digital, um, And because that works so well for so many reasons, for so many people and companies, much of that has remained. It certainly continues to be the way that I go about doing business. And it is a real special experience to actually be face to face and in the physical presence of someone. So I get that. I really get how, and it makes me wonder. I wonder, it makes me wonder if, if there's statistics on this, there probably are, there's information about this, about how much more time people are spending on screens now than prior to COVID, and if COVID made a difference. Like, if we're looking at that, definitely, definitely, if what we're seeking is that connection, and we're looking for a two dimensional experience, excuse me, a three dimensional experience through a two, two, two dimensional screen, uh, that may explain why we are scrolling looking for that hit. That gets our attention for two seconds instead of one, uh, whereas I, and I love, I love this anecdotal story that you just shared about the 30 to 36 year old people that are getting together on a regular basis and love it so much eating together, conversing face to face, physical experience, physical presence with each other. Yeah. Um, I'm thinking that's really what we're looking for. We're looking for connection.

Marty: Yeah, well, and also in the case of, like, doing deep work. So this is yet another story of a client that, you know, just voiced his concern with leading his, his day and his, and his, he works for mortgage company. In such a way that he can get some of the deeper work done that he needs to do where, you know, you really need to think you need some space. You need to get into it. It takes a while. And he has, he's, it's hard for him because he's so used to flipping, clipping, screening, screening, scrolling. And now all of a sudden he's got, he's like, well, I don't know how to get into this and get this deeper work done. You know, is he a loan officer?

Bill: Oh, okay. So I absolutely remember and relate to this, um, that, that when somehow the environment was created for me to get in and actually do the deeper work, what you're talking about, of being able to put together a loan file and then follow up on all the stuff that needed to happen in order to get it all the way to fruition and closing, uh, that was challenged. And so for me, the challenge was. I did work in a face to face environment. I don't know if that's true for your client or not, but I would have a door that people would walk through and want my attention. And I mean, I'm in the middle of maybe a 50 step process of figuring out what needs to happen and checking through the list and doing those things and an interruption would come or a phone call or an email or a text. Yeah. And it is, it's hard to just get into that and to block the space, protect the space, protect the time and be able to go do that deeper work. So I see what you're saying to that. That too is a big challenge and a problem from not being able to give attention all to 1 thing for a sustained period of time.

Marty: Yeah, and the 3rd, the 3rd area that I'm pointing to, and this also comes from talking to clients in particular, a gentleman who works at Apple. Management and, um, it's just so he's, it's so hard to get into a flow state, he said. There's this unsatisfying feel with life like, and with what I can do with my own. brain, my own body. It's kind of like having a handicap in the sport. You know, like my brain, we've so trained ourselves to be all over the place that it's hard to get into that flow state again.

Bill: Low state. You've mentioned that a few times. Let's, let's define that for the listener. We all may, you know, the listener may have their idea of what that flow state, what that means. Can I just ask you to define it when you say flow state, what are you referring to?

Marty: Well, it's, it's about focus. So it's closely related to the deep work, but it might not be deep work. It might just be, you know, it's, it's like the runner's high, it's when you're not working at running and all of a sudden it's like the running just, you're just flowing with it. And it happens with, you know, sitting doing desk work too. There are times when you're just into it and it's flowing and you and and it sort of moves you forward and the effort seems to disappear. So, it is about being connected. It is about being focused. It's a very desirable state is very productive state. We like it. And it's energizing.

Bill: Energizing, it flows, it's effort. Well, maybe not completely effortless, but the effort that you need to put into it, you're happy to do so. You're happy to invest that, that effort into whatever it is that you're doing. Yeah, that's the way I see flow state as well. Okay. Yeah, so that's our desirable outcome, really, to be in that flow state with whatever it is that we're doing, and then to match that flow state to either the desired state that, if what you're looking for is to get someone else's attention, to match whatever it is that's flowing for you to the person that you're wanting to connect with. Would you say that's accurate?

Marty: Yes.

Bill: Like in marketing, if I, if my, first of all, I have to know what my message is and then be cleared and do a good job of, um, like edifying that message and then getting comfortable and used to forming the words around that when I speak and, and, and the, and the language that I use in my writing and any articles that I, that I might publish videos that I might make so that people really get. A consistent message for me. This is what Bill talks about. This is what's important to Bill. And this is why I'm, this is why I'm interested in listening to Bill and why I would, why I'd want to give him my attention.

Marty: Right.

Bill: Right.

Marty: I think it points that might be an example of what the first thing that comes to me about all these problems is that, you know, I'm trained in ontological coaching, um, which pays attention to your, your way of being. And, um, like if the way that I'm being is constantly interrupted, then I can't be

Bill: Yes.

Marty: Um, and similarly, When I have a like a vision of the way that I want to be, then that helps me into the flow state. It's like, this is all in the service of a way of being right. And if, you know, let's say it's free, or let's say it's, um, you know, expert or whatever it might be. When, when you can blow everything that you're doing through that way of being and it facilitates it, you're serving, you're serving that vision rather than one task after another, after another, after another, it's, it's, it all gets cooked. You know, uh, coordinated through that way of being. I think that, you know, just looking at my own experience that helps me a lot. Yeah, I, I play a lot with this way of being that I made up called philosopher of the marketplace. And that because I love philosophy and I love the marketplace and they don't normally come together. But when I represent that union of those 2 energies, it just like, it helps me see how to be and what to do and how to say to this. And it puts me in a flow state. I

Bill: really love the way you said that just now. I'm so glad we're recording this because the length, the way you put those words together just now just it was, it was almost poetic beautifully when I am. I can't. I'm not going to successfully repeat it. But what I heard was something like when I am the intersection between the marketplace and philosophy, I find myself in the flow state. Yeah, that's right. That is just beautiful. You know, I'm thinking about how you as coach, among other coaches on Friday morning, supported me in my challenge last time. So when you talk about ontology and the study of being and who is it that and the question who is it that I'm being that I'm getting having the experience that I'm having now, and who is it that I would need to be or want to be in order to have the experience I want to have. Right. That's essentially the coaching I was getting from you in my challenge last Friday. I see. And, and I, I remember that because my orientation is, is multiple as well. Mine is, is training in ontology, being coached by an ontological coach for years, and then being trained in the internal family systems model. Which has a profound, potentially profound impact on my ontology and who it is that I'm being, but it takes a different approach. It's rather, rather than, IFS is not the approach of who are you being right now that you're having the experience that you're having. It comes from more of a place of, uh, at least the way I use it, who you're being right now reflects what's happening inside with your parts. Let's get curious about those parts. shift, um, your ontology will shift, who you're being will shift. So it's, it's kind of a different way to, to approach it, but essentially they both have their same result. So last Friday in my challenge, I found that I, your question was, was confrontive for me to say, no, who is, and I may state it wrong. This is just the way I remembered it. You asked a question that, that had me considering who is it that I'm being in this circumstance. That I'm getting this, these results and having this experience. And, um, I, I really had to stop the train of. How I'm accustomed to supporting my clients using IFS and, and, and meet you in your intersection of, of ontology and coaching that, that you were using that, that required a conscious decision for me to shift my internal focus from what are my parts doing right now to who am I being? That's a different kind of question that requires a different kind of context. I have to think about this differently.

Marty: And

Bill: once I paused long enough, and thank you for allowing me to pause when I did, you and the other coaches that were supporting me, they all did a beautiful job of just pausing and let me be with your question. And, and the, you may remember that the answer was I'm being combative. I'm being difficult. I'm being insistent. I'm being impatient. That's who I'm being. Well, and all that description certainly matches my experience.

Marty: Mm.

Bill: Felt impatient. I, I was being insistent. I, I, I was being, um, combative. Your next question was, who would you need to be to have what am I, am I remembering it similar to how you remember it? Something like that. Yeah.

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: Yeah. And I think I answered, I want to be compassionate. I don't know if I said this or not, but I don't want to have to feel like I have to be patient. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I want to feel okay with being with whatever is presenting without force myself to feel to act or be patient, but I want to be compassionate. I want to be understanding. I want to be a team player. I want to be a joiner. I want to be a participant

Marty: that that phrase. I'm sorry to interrupt, but I think that was a really important phrase. I don't want to force myself to be something. I think that's why I'm invoking here. Just just to put them like a bookmark. Yeah. That's why I'm saying that this ontological question, who are you being is so important in this ADD society, because then you've got to focus, you're not being this for them and that for them and that for them and making yourself totally distracted, you know, who I am, is this, you know, facilitating, like, I just want to make things easier for me, I'll be a facilitator. Well, then you've got, then you've got focus, you can facilitate. All of these distractions, you just keep being facilitative.

Bill: Right? Yes. Yes. Yes. In fact, I think I even came up with a phrase for what that would look like. I don't know that I'll find it right here, but I, I found, I remember finding a phrase that would help me remember and remind myself who is it that I want to be in this situation because it's going to be happening again this week. I will find myself right back in that very same situation this week. The same triggers are going to be there. The same things that might activate me to feel impatient and frustrated and controlling and combative. But my hope is that between the support that I got from you as coach and the others in that coaching conversation on Friday, as well as the support that I've got that I gave myself on your suggestion, you suggested, Bill, do you have some time after our conversation right now to go work with the parts of you that are going to have a hard time with this? And I did and I did.

Marty: Um,

Bill: so my hope, and then I got support after that. And I've been talking about it ever since it's been this huge thing. And every, every piece of work that I'm willing to do, that takes me deeper. Then we talk about deeper work in a different way. Now, everything, every question that I ask and then. Every question I receive and then answer takes me to a broader and broader and broader understanding of what it is that happens inside of me that have me showing up as impatient and and demanding and combative. Interestingly, those kinds of questions now make room for me to be make room and space and capacity for me to be who I want to be. So I think it's a combination of both of these, these things. As you say,

Marty: and I thought of a, so maybe this might be what kicked the topic off for me. I, I did think of just now, really, because I can relate to what you're saying. Um, I'm, I'm in the throes of a marketing campaign right now. At times it feels like me against the world, you know, like, there's so many people and they're not interested and, you know, That that sort of feeling. Um, and, uh, just a friend of mine said, well, just keep being yourself results will come. And and so what I take that to mean is keep facilitating or keep empowering. Keep keep empowering people in their leadership and and that right that that gives me a place to stand in in the distraction of this campaign, where, you know, you meet lots of people and they have their attention on all kinds of other things. How am I going to it gets discouraging? How am I going to get, you know, business out of this storm of activity? Well, Her recommendation, just, just keep being empowering. And, you know, if you just keep, that's what you're focused on, the business will come. So there's a personal

Bill: example. That's great. So, so who do you want, who do you declare yourself to be is empowering? Who you've been is disempowered. Would you say that's accurate? Me against the world. Yeah. Disempowered. To be showing up as yeah, and so for you it's a shift Remember remember remember who it is. I need to be is empowering. Okay,

Marty: right And so, you know, I can be talking to somebody who says who that is a no I could still empower them, you know Yes,

Bill: if the goal if your objective is to be empowering rather than to be selling or to be Committed committed to a yes You Yeah, that's gonna, that's gonna dictate

Marty: a much constantly knocked back on my, on my, you know, my back on my heels. It would just like, well, that didn't work. That didn't work. That wouldn't work. Right. And so you get defeated and you stop. But if I just keep being empowering, then, you know, everybody got empowered today. I mean, maybe tomorrow somebody will hire me, but I had a great day of empowering

Bill: folks. What is the name of that book that Rich Litvin and Steve Chandler wrote? about coaching. Uh, it has to, it's some, the something coach, the, this is what I'm reminded of when you're talking about this example of who I declare myself to be as empowering. Uh, such a great book. And if, if, if anyone that's listening is a new or aspiring coach or even someone that's been coaching for a while, I would highly encourage. That this book be read. I've got all kinds of digital copies of it that that I purchased by accident over the years. The 1st, when I purchased on purpose, and then I ended up buying more of them. That's a strange thing. But I, I have it and I'll, I'll look it up. It's okay. You don't need to be distracted by it. I'll find it. Okay. Yeah. Um, and then I'll make sure I mentioned it before this is done, but the idea that, uh, and, and this goes back to your philosophy of leadership too, is, is, um. And we say it in our, in our intro to the podcast. It's not about you. Leadership is not about you. It's about empowering other people. So this is you beating that same drum again and again and again. This is your message, which I happen to agree with. Yeah.

Marty: Yeah, I think it's just, it's sort of comforting to know that in this world of overwhelming data flow, that you don't have to, you don't have to aspire to get it all under your belt to, to master it all. All you have to do is focus on who you mean to be. That's, you know, and just be the consistency there will produce the life you want and you can adjust it if you need to, but that's where you're going to get focus, deep work, connection. Fulfillment is not trying to be everything for everybody. Right, but choosing who you are gonna be and focusing on perfecting that and practicing that and noticing how differently that interacts with those kind of people versus those kind of people, you know, or in this context versus that.

Bill: Mm-Hmm. .

Marty: It's, I just, I, I guess now that I'm saying this, I kind wanted to hear myself say, , you know, as a, what is it? What is it you wanna hear yourself say? That I don't have to master the whole technological world, or know all there is to know about both candidates for president. I, you know, just be yourself, which is a choice, right? Be yourself, whatever that most, What

Bill: that

Marty: means to you,

Bill: I'm just going to say what being myself as a choice. Absolutely. Absolutely. Being being yourself as a choice because it's when we're aware, sorry to interrupt. And I think this is important too. And I do too. Yes. Like the nice guy client, or hopeful, hopeful client. I'm getting confused. Anyhow, you spoke with somebody and you referred to that conversation. This is kind of a nice guy. That person may or may not have been aware prior to his conversation with you that who he was being was whoever he thought he needed to be for them. The choice to be himself instead of that is an example of that choice that you're pointing to.

Marty: Well, you'll be happy to know that I started that conversation with a little I F. S. C. kind of investigation. I, I said to him, you know, I asked him what he wanted to be coached on. He said, time management. I said, say more. And he said, okay, well, you know, the operations. has all these procedures they want me to follow and I wind up spending the whole day trying to make those folks happy and I never get around to sales. Mm hmm. Uh huh. And so it sounds like there are two parts of you. Mm hmm. Very good. You knew I would like that. Right? And I, so I, I said, let's, let's hear from each of them separately. First of all, you know, what's driving, what's, what is, this guy's doing really good work keeping up with the operations people, What's the motivation there? Well, I want to, you know, I want to keep people happy. I want to keep them on my, on my good side and I'll like, okay, notice, notice.

Bill: I want the processor to process my loans before the other guys. I want the underwriter to stamp the approval. I don't want to piss anybody off that doesn't slow down the process. Is that what he's talking about? And yet who I am, I got

Marty: him to say in the next part of the conversation is a salesperson. Yes. And in fact, he knows clearly that if he's not a salesperson, all of that admin stuff doesn't matter because he won't have any loans to do. That's right.

Bill: Yeah. That is the dilemma. I love this coaching conversation. So how did it go from there?

Marty: I asked him, who are you? I asked him, you know, who, who, you know, these, it sounds like they're making decisions and they're making decisions and your wife is making decisions about the kids and like, and you're kind of like, just reacting to it all. I said, who are you? And then I switched to a king warrior magician conversation with, I said, you know what, I, I see that you can get things done. You're a magician. I see that, you know, the lover in you, I see all that. What I'm not hearing is the king, like, What does the king have to say about the direction this should go? Is it going to go in the direction of both teasing people? Or is it going to go in the direction of making the sales happen? Or, or something else? You know, is there some way? To integrate them, you know, could you, could you be a nice guy who says no to all of that operations? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's how that's beautiful.

Bill: Nice coaching. Very, really great. Really great. Okay. So this conversation is, let's go back to what we're calling it. Uh, leadership in the attention based economy and the challenge of getting the attention or keeping your attention. On that leadership, getting the attention so you can lead or giving your attention as leader.

Marty: Mm hmm.

Bill: So let's talk about what gets in the way of that. You've just been talking about declaring and choosing to be yourself. Well, if you don't know yourself, how can you choose that? Right? There's one challenge. You know yourself. And why wouldn't you know yourself?

Marty: And well, and why sort of implicit in just in this conversation, the way we set that up is the reason you don't know yourself is because you're distracted. Okay. Yeah, you're, you're, you're identifying with this and that and the other and it, it hasn't been integrated, right? Right.

Bill: So I'm distracted. Something else is getting my attention in this red hot moment as Esther Hicks will say, or Abraham through Esther Hicks would say this red hot moment. I'm getting my attention to this red hot thing. That's got my attention like squirrel shiny thing. Right? Right. Uh, instead of what's really important to me and in my experience, my, my personal experience, as well as working with my clients, what gets my attention in this red hot moment often is whatever the part of me that's the most dominant in that moment has its attention on, for example, if I have a part whose goal, goal in the moment is to distract me from some painful experience. It'll show me a shiny thing. Oh, there's something that just popped up. Did I just hear an alert on my phone? Oh, I think the cat's hair is on fire something just anything to get to get my hands in a way It's the most dominating part of me That's influencing my thinking right now while I'm trying to do that mortgage loan file and get it ready for the processor is Gosh, I wonder how the wife's doing with those two kids at home right now. She probably needs to hear from me That part's going to get me to call my wife. And, and then what could have taken another five minutes to complete in the, in the process of that file for another hour, or maybe tomorrow depends on what happens when I make that call. So, you know, the I'm just, it's just now occurring to me that one way to manage all that is with a rigid internal manager that says, no, we're going to focus on this right now and nothing else. That's not helpful either. That's not workable. We need to be flexible enough to be able to give our attention to what actually needs our attention. So in IFS, what we would say about this is that what's really needed is self leadership. In other words, we don't need our parts leading, we need our parts serving. Right. But the parts need to be willing to acknowledge that there is a capable leader inside. And this for me, as usual, is how I'm thinking of this topic on leadership.

Marty: Yeah. Well, and you know, in this conversation this morning with the young man, so then I, I asked him, so who are you then? And then I said, okay, so with all these demands being made of you and interruptions, he says, you know, the operators will come to his door and they're like, but we need this now. And so, so now, now that you're in your own skin. You know who you are. How could you address those interruptions? And he was brilliant. He was brilliant. He's like, no, I would tell them that what they're asking for is very important. And that right now I'm doing something else. And I would love to have a look at it at 2 o'clock. He was right there. He got it. He took on the way of being and thought differently about how to respond to those interruptions immediately. That's beautiful.

Bill: You know, isn't that great that that when we place our faith and trust in those who we lead, whether it's as a coach or a CEO or or or a manager in a business, or a parent with children, the list can go on and on a teacher when we know that those who were leading. Have built right in the innate resources they need to be the brilliant geniuses that they are in their own lives. And we, we, we support them in that rather than giving them feeding them answers of the way we think we might do it. That's when that's when we're back in that flow

Marty: again as a leader. And I gave him another more challenging one. I said, what if what if operations comes by this afternoon and interrupt your work and they want something that you just you're an absolute no to it's not I'll do it later. You're interrupting, but it's no, I'm not doing that. Let's hear how you in your. You know, and your skin, um, would say that, right. And, and he was at a loss. He's like, I don't know, like I really had hit that, that, but now I see why he's a nice guy because he doesn't have an alternative. So I said, well, what about when your daughter who's three years old, what about when she wants yet another cookie and it's not okay to give her more? Sure. What do you say? Oh, he said. Oh, okay. I just need to be firm in better fact. Very good. You don't have to not love them. You just have to be firm.

Bill: Beautifully. Well done. Yeah. Well, what a wonderful conversation. I'm noticing the time we need to begin to wrap up. How would you summarize our discussion here today, Marty?

Marty: Well, I think I think 1st of all, it's in it by way of somebody. We were just been acknowledging 1st of all, that we are inundated with information and that we're going to have to pay attention to our attention and. And that, because that's where we get our connectedness to other people, our connection to our ability to do deep work, um, our connection to the flow of life. And so we want it. And so once we become aware of what's happening with our attention, we can then begin to make better choices.

Bill: That is excellent. I want to add and play on your words a little bit here and say that in addition to that It's paying attention to our intention and setting an intention So that can be our guiding light throughout our day or yeah, or however often we reset our intention By paying attention to our intention and where our attention goes and checking ourselves is where I'm giving my attention right now in service of the intention that I have for who I want to be today. Right. That could be the very beginning and maybe a thread that runs all the way through the solution to how difficult it is to be a leader in this attention based economy. Amen. Great conversation till next time in leadership coaching podcast. Take care. Bye.