Marty: Welcome everyone to another episode of the True You Podcast with Bill Tierney IFS and Results Coach and me Martin Kettelhut leadership and Executive Coach.

Bill: I noticed how true you isn't quite rolling off your tongue yet. You're trying to find it. I'm the same. This is maybe the third or fourth episode that we've recorded so far.

Marty: Uh huh.

Bill: And we're talking about it a lot. The True You Podcast. I really like the sound and feel of it, and it's starting to roll off my tongue better. brain's still wired around the Leadership Coaching podcast somewhat, somewhat.

Marty: It takes a while to get. Really comfortable being true. You.

Bill: Well there's that and, uh, this is an interesting, this wasn't the topic we were gonna talk about, but we maybe could play here for a little while. The brain is so efficient, it seems, and, and when I say it seems, I'm actually making an assumption. I don't have any science to back this up, but it seems like the brain's really efficient in that it seems to find comfortable grooves to flow in. And so it on Wednesdays at 1:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, when we sit down to record these sessions, my brain's ready for is to talk about the leadership coaching podcast. So that groove now, every time we record or talk about our podcast together, next to it is another groove that's getting bigger and bigger and bigger While this other one is shrinking. The leadership coaching podcast is shrinking in my

Marty: Mm.

Bill: as as something just to easily go to, and I think that that's the way I understand why it flows easily out, off outta my mouth or not.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bill: What do you think of that?

Marty: No, I, I, I think that's right. You know, it's one of the reasons why, I think that communication of our thoughts isn't, is something to look at ethically because we, we are at choice. And this is what it makes me think of, um, when you say that. Like, when, if we wanna change a habit of thinking, we have to practice at it. If we. Notice that there, there's a way that we've been thinking of, like you're pointing to, and, and we want that to, we want a different habit. Then we have to take responsibility for making that happen. I notice a lot of times my clients, they, they kind of just want, I don't know, to have talked about it and then it's done. Like it's just gonna be different from now on because we talked about it,

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marty: you actually have to, you have to practice at, because. Thinking is habituated, it's it, it's neurons, it's, you know, dendrites getting connected up or disconnected

Bill: There's the science right there.

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: I love that you, that you're bringing that.

Marty: Yeah. So, and that's why I say it's also, you know, there's an ethical dimension to this. Like you are responsible for what's coming out of your mouth and what's going on in your head. It's your choice.

Bill: be impeccable with your word, one of the four agreements. Is that right?

Marty: That's one of them.

Bill: Yeah. Miguel, Don, Don Miguel Ruiz.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marty: Yes.

Bill: with the word is that you suppose That's what he means.

Marty: But the other thing that, that you are saying that makes me think of is I like that, that you are looking at the efficiency of the like. Grateful for the mind itself, because I think that's, that's really important to have this friendship with the mind. You know, if, if you're at odds with your own mind, it just adds a, puts a, a wet cloak over life, you know? And so I think it's good to cultivate that friendliness toward our, my appreciation of this. Amazing organ we have between our ears.

Bill: Yeah. I'm sure others have talked about this far more intelligently than I'm about to, uh, comment on it. And that is that even though the very language that easily flows from our mouth. Is habitual. It's so, it, it, it seems so automatic and to me it's, it's fantastically and, and, and mysterious and amazing and me in wonder I can have a thought or an idea, I hear myself communicating it.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: Oh, by the way, a whole lot better than I used to be able to.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: There, there were, I, I, I kind of joke, but this is also close to true. That when I first got sober at the age of 27 years old and began to sit in meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous where I was expected to speak in full sentences and paragraphs, I found it difficult to do.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: I wasn't accustomed to that, and there was a fear in me that if I, if I gave away too much, they were gonna figure out that I'm a fraud, that I, I'm just, I'm just over here acting. So I really need to be careful and not share too much. Well, of course that's, that's changed a lot over the last 42 years. now, I, I pretty well can say what I wanna say. Uh, it, it comes pretty easily because I've been in a lot of conversations. So it's very well practiced. I know the words that I want to use to convey this particular idea. It's almost like there's these word chunks that convey these bigger, complex ideas. And then I move on and. Uh, that can be dangerous in a conversation. Not dangerous, like somebody's gonna get hurt, but dangerous. Like, I might leave somebody behind or someone may not understand. If I just assume, as you say, that, uh, what I'm saying is understood as in the way that I mean it.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bill: the person on the other side that that's listening is, was working so hard to just keep up with ideas that are new to them or that I'm conveying in a way that's not familiar. With the language combination that I'm using it, it's pretty easy lose them. Not because I'm smarter than just because the way that I'm putting words together is a different combination of the way they're accustomed to hearing ideas conveyed.

Marty: Right. Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bill: So this is fascinating to me that, that we can have a conversation, don't just bark at each other. We have, we have ways to describe nuanced ideas and and, and even understand each other. I love it. wonderful.

Marty: Yeah. Yeah, and I think that's, you know, with regard to instigating new habits. Um, if you add that level of appreciation, it's going to be easier. Like if you're fighting against the new thought, habit or behavior habit,

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marty: gonna be harder to institute. But if you are loving it and that you, you know, that you get to fall into this new way, then that. You know, it just like greases the wheels, like, oh great, you know, I'm back in and it, and it makes it easier to, to, so that attitude on top of the habit makes a big difference in how well it gets inculcated,

Bill: You are talking about elements of ontology right now, aren't you?

Marty: I suppose. I am.

Bill: What I hear is that you're, you're talking about thought habits, which is my short term, my short definition for beliefs.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: A belief is simply a thought habit.

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: You're talking about behavior habits, uh, which, which are just become automatic. I, this is what I do. I get up in the morning, I go to the bathroom, I make a cup of coffee. I play wordle in the morning. I wait for the coffee to brew, then I get my cup of coffee. I mean, it's just automatic. Like I can break out of that. I'm conscious of it, and I can be conscious of it and I can break out of it. But breaking out of it, uh, it, it feels inefficient sometimes. Like now, what was I doing? That, that may be getting worse as I get older. But, uh, when I say that you're, you're talking about elements of ontology. What I mean is that if, if I want to have a different experience and, and, and provide a different experience of myself to others in the way that I'm being, like a lot of times in coaching sessions with you, you've asked me, who is it that you would need to be in order to produce this outcome or to have this

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: Well, that has me imagining, well, I would need to be this, this, and that. I would need to be optimistic. I would need to be industrious. I would need to be collaborative. Okay, so what would it, what would get in the way, you might ask me next, what would get in the way of you, of you being collaborative and

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: whatever else I just said. and so when I hear you talking about ha thought habits, well that's what, that's what might need to be broken are some thought habits and behavior habits that might need to be broken.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: And, and so we, now, we get into, to the, to that conversation is how do you break these automatic habits that have been formed over time and that have worked as well as they work.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you know, sometimes it's, it's about putting reminders in your own path so that. You know, you're gonna be going out the front door and you wanna create the new habit of taking your umbrella, so you put it by the door.

Bill: Hmm.

Marty: Um,

Bill: You create some structure to help you make that habit

Marty: that's right. Right. Yeah. Or. You wanna remember to think positive thoughts while you're doing your grooming in the morning. So you put a post-it on the mirror where you do that. And, and so these are, that's again, that's a structure. Or you tell the people in your family, you know, I, I, I wanna, uh, you know, I don't wanna watch so much TV in the evening, so. Don't let me just sit in front of the tv, remind if I, if you find me sitting in front of the tv, ask me to go for a walk or play a game or something. So that's another structure. But, but yeah, this is one of the ways that we create new habits is by putting structures in place.

Bill: Where my mind is going right now is, is I'm, I, I see that we're going at an intersection. is a really interesting conversation that we can

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: and there were a couple other things that we talked about we might discuss today before we hit record. I, I wanna suggest that this is the True You podcast and what we've been talking about has much to do with the misidentification as someone or something other than who we truly are. So these, these habits often are formed as survival strategies, strategies to divert attention away from that, which we would wanna hide from the world out of the, uh, misunderstanding or the confusion having to do with who are we? Who am I,

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: I'm thinking again, of sessions that I had today and yesterday with clients who, at their. At the core of these strategies and behaviors that are showing up as maladaptive and problematic is the fear that somebody's gonna find out what it is they're afraid is true about them,

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: that fear about that someone might find out that I am really not who I'm presenting myself as being

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: that that has everything to do with. A moment or event or a series of events that, that culminated in a conclusion, a belief habit, a thought habit, a belief that who I am is broken, not good enough, too much overbearing. There's something wrong with me. That's, that's, so now that becomes, as you say in, in your books, uh, the secret, the secret identity

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: that becomes what IFS refers to as the burden of the exile, the shame. And then becomes a job for all of the other parts, the, for the protectors to make sure that that's managed well. And, and the best way to manage it is hide it, therefore exiles. So this is just another way into the very same conversation that we wanna be having over and over and over again between you and I and also with our guests. And that is do we lose our sense of self capital s or our, our, how do we lose our sense of who we really are? And then. the road? What's the road that you're on that helps you come, come back to that? Okay. Anything else you wanna say about that

Marty: we can, we can even choose like major life structures, like, um, you, one of them, those central, what I would call my secret identity and to use that terminology. Or you could say one of my. Um, most clingy parts

Bill: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Marty: is a part that, that's says that I'm worthless,

Bill: Yes.

Marty: right? And so, um, Part of why that got to be such a, a central part of me was because of the trauma associated with it at the time. You know, it was, it was, it was, uh, survival. A way of explaining a moment where survival was at stake.

Bill: Yes.

Marty: And then other things reinforce that. Um, so it becomes a habit. But I chose a profession that calls me out of that place constantly,

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marty: I cannot get in a coaching session with somebody and be worthless. I'm there to provide value. And so like that, get that conversation to the extent it still comes up, it usually comes up elsewhere because in the context of a coaching call, I'm all about what I can do and, and say to help. I'm, I'm not thinking about myself. I'm focused on the client. And so that it's, it becomes. Instead of being a trap for me to be my secret identity and to worry about my worth, it becomes a ecstatic moment, like a moment of bliss, because I'm nowhere near having that thought about my worth. I'm focused on the client, and that's a structure that makes for a really good life because I'm not in, in that context, I'm not dwelling on me.

Bill: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well said. And, uh, what a way, what a great way to focus your conscious attention on in that to use IFS language is self energizing. It, it helps you to tap into your self energy, to tap into all of the resources that are available as, as self, and when that's happening, we're not suffering. That's my favorite thing about IFS is that when I, when I find hacks into the self, into accessing my self resources and qualities, I'm not suffering.

Marty: That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

Bill: It's kind of ironic and paradoxical, even though that, that, if that's my goal, I love that about IFS and yet if I go into a session for myself, let's say, uh, to, to not suffer, it makes it more, more difficult to actually have that experience. The agenda itself gets in the way of that. It's the. The wonder, W-O-N-D-R of, of

Marty: Mm-hmm. Right. Right.

Bill: is happening here? What's going on inside for, for each of my parts and for my clusters of partisan, what's at stake and what's getting stirred

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: what's going on with this poor exile that's, that's getting, you know, bullied or hidden or controlled or managed or misunderstood blamed for, for these painful feelings it has and, and that, that I feel when I'm blended with it. If I, if I go into an exploration with, um, whether it's just between myself and my parts on paper as I'm journaling, or if I've asked someone to facilitate a con, uh, that conversation for me and hold enough self energy to hold that space so that I can explore if I go into that the agenda that I'm suffering and I need to stop, number one, it's understandable that I would, who likes to suffer. once you've discovered that IFS actually is a way out of suffering, of course you're gonna wanna bring that agenda and the, but the paradox is, unless that agenda's checked at the door, you're not gonna get there.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bill: gets in the way of the freedom that you came here for.

Marty: Right, right. Yeah.

Bill: I wanna read this quote that I gave you earlier. So I'm in a, I am in a session with a client and at the end of the session we're just talking about the nature of an internal system. organized around a trauma. And in a system like that, what I said was, parts are trying to help you have the best, difficult life you can have. And really what that means is that our parts are so devoted, so loyal, and they have a fixed, most of them, a pretty, the most of the burden parts have a pretty fixed perspective, and that is that life is difficult. Let's make the best of it.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: How can I have the best possible difficult life that I have? Whereas when, when parts begin to be, feel, seen, known, heard, understood, and appreciated, they who doesn't like that? And they begin to relax. And as they relax, they discover something they weren't, they didn't know was even possible. And, and that that self. The, the, the cup qualities and resources itself. The, the, the flow, the wonder, the love, the connection, the, the, uh, the total engagement in the present moment, and given that they're parts and still burdened, if they are, they're next, the next thing they're gonna do is say, how do I reproduce

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bill: It's like the alcoholic who says, you know, if they made a pill that, that, would stop me from ever drinking again. I would drink the whole, I would, I would eat the whole bottle of 'em. I'd have the whole bottle of pills, like the context has to change altogether.

Marty: Mm-hmm. So just to clarify for people listening and for me, when, if. Read that quote again. It sounds like what you're saying is that parts are doing their best to give us the life we want in the face of challenges.

Bill: They are and, and they can't, many burden parts cannot see beyond those challenges.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: Given this challenge, what's the best we can do?

Marty: Right. Right. And so the, one of the things that I find really great about that is that it honors all parts. Like they're all trying to give you the best life they can under what they consider to be the circumstances.

Bill: And the limitations of that life, right?

Marty: Right, right.

Bill: part of the circumstances is, oh, so since we're not good enough, this is, this is a good way to say it. Since I'm, since I'm worthless, what's the best life I can have as a worthless person?

Marty: Yeah. Right.

Bill: are trying to do. 'cause they, they don't know any better. The exile that they're managing and hiding away has the belief. It holds the belief, but so do they.

Marty: So a key question then when you're doing parts work has gotta always be, well, what does this part believe to be true

Bill: Yes. And yet that, that language for most parts is pretty foreign and we can't actually, actually use that language to ask that question

Marty: Uhhuh?

Bill: and expect to get a very clear answer. In fact, if I would, I would suspect that if you got an answer to that question, if I were to say to you and you, let's say I'm facilitating a session for you and your system and, and we've discovered a part and I'm, I'd say so Marty, go inside and ask that part what it believes.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: Pretty good chance a figuring out part's gonna step and say, well step up and say, well, what this part believes is this, this, and this. A logical cerebral part. Might

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: with an answer like that. I would be really surprised if the part itself knows what they believe, because it's like the fish swimming in the water.

Marty: I see. I see. Okay. Okay.

Bill: But, but what we can, how we can get close to that is to say, what are you doing? do you do it? What are you trying to accomplish? And what are you afraid will happen if you don't do that?

Marty: Okay. I see.

Bill: We ask those those questions, and now the part reveals its belief in its fear.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: These are the breadcrumbs that lead back to the belief.

Marty: I see. I.

Bill: I'm a, I'm afraid people aren't gonna like us. If people find, if I tell, if I speak up and transparently say everything there is to say and let you know about the secret I've been trying to keep about what I did 10 years ago, I'm afraid that you're gonna judge me and you're not gonna want anything to do with me,

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: afraid that I'm gonna be alone. So what's the belief revealed here? that I did 10 years ago reflects that I have no value or that there's something really shameful about me. And, and if anybody knows that. I'm gonna be completely

Marty: Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill: I'm bad. Is the belief

Marty: And so then when we find out from those, like you say, breadcrumb questions that lead us to the belief that the part itself would have trouble articulating is the how do you work with, because it doesn't know it's making this assumption. Do you tell it? Do you realize you have a belief that ba, ba, ba, or is that not is, would that have it hang on. Harder to it or can you?

Bill: could, it depends on the timing. Uh, so what you're suggesting is what I just refer to as an update, and I think a lot of IFS practitioners do. That's an

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: Uh, if you were in doing an lp, it might be called a reframing. Uh, and, and if the timing's wrong. The part's gonna defend and not be open to it. But if the part, it goes back to this, if the part feels seen, witnessed, understood, known, and appreciated for, appreciated for what it's up against, what's at

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: the dilemma it's trying to manage around, or re the dilemma that it's reacting to or that it's stuck in. If the part really feels seen and understood, and now I come to it and say, would it be helpful if I gave you a bit of information that I don't think you have? And the part, it, it feels honored by the request. It's, it's not saying, Hey, you, you're looking at this all wrong. I said that, almost guaranteed the part's gonna say, no, thank

Marty: Got it. Got it. Right. Right.

Bill: obviously don't understand if you think I'm looking at this wrong, you, you don't see what I see. That's how the part's gonna react. But if, if I approach the part in full respect, not pretending, not putting on a cloak of sincerity, actually authentically. Respectfully honoring the part and saying, is this a good time? Can I, I make, I wanna make you an offer. Is this a good, do you feel open to an offer? And the part might say, yeah, not really. I feel like you don't really get me yet. Okay, let's spend some more time together then.

Marty: Okay. Makes.

Bill: But if the timing's right, oh, that is really useful. I believe that that's part of what's required. In fact, in order for there to be an internal psychological shift for the part. So that it can shift from, oh, I thought, I thought this is what explained what

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: but now you're telling me that this explains what happened, or you're asking me at least to consider that,

Marty: Or at least you're showing me like that I've been believing that.

Bill: yes,

Marty: You're not even, maybe not even offering an alternative, but just saying, do you realize that this is the belief that you've been going on?

Bill: mm-hmm. And as a coach, Marty, and I'm sure every coach out there has had this experience. If you're listening and you're a coach, you've had this experience, you, you have a conversation with a client and you make that offer, do you realize, just as you stated it, or some, some version of that,

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: you realize that this is the belief that you've been operating on? Or do, do you realize that the context you've been offering operating within is this? If the client, if the timing's right, and if the clients now feel, felt, seen, known, heard, understood, and, and appreciated and feels. Open to change. Like, yeah, this is exhausting. I'm so tired of doing this. It's really not working, but I don't know anything else to do and now I trust you enough to make an offer. So let's, let's hear it. What is it? What's the offer? Well, you know, you've been operating under this particular belief and context, it might be that it's the belief or context that you've been operating under that's causing the whole problem. if we were to shift that? Are you, are you open to looking at that?

Marty: Right.

Bill: We've all had the experiences as coaches, even without using the IFS model with our clients. and when we've had that experience, what I'm asserting right now is that it's the client's part that has been holding that belief that says, yeah, maybe, yeah, let's look at

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: Or, or defends against it and says, no, this is true. This is what's true.

Marty: Yeah. Right. Yeah. I've had that experience both ways. You know, where, where the client, client says, well, but I, but I am, I am this way.

Bill: I am stupid. I I am worthless. I, I,

Marty: I am, well, the, recently I had it with the client who thinks he's rude. He doesn't wanna speak up at work because he thinks that he's inherently rude.

Bill: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Marty: and I asked him, he like, well, what would, what would like be like if you didn't have that belief? And he's like, but I do. But I am

Bill: Right. It's the truth.

Marty: right.

Bill: Uh, right. And, and. Someone that's that firmly rooted in that as being the truth. In other words, that has that so many thought habits that have, that have glommed on together, that they've formed this belief

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: I am, that has a very good reason for believing. So

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: it started with one of those survival events in, as you were saying, or a series of them

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: that that culminated in this idea, like, you know, the only thing that explains this is that I'm a worthless piece of

Marty: Right. Yeah.

Bill: So therefore, given, given I'm a worthless piece of do-do, what's the best life I can have?

Marty: Yeah. Well, not speaking up for sure.

Bill: That'd be a good way to do it. Yeah. Keep it to yourself. Don't give anybody anything to work with.

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: Don't give it away.

Marty: So,

Bill: be powerful.

Marty: so going back to your, do you mind re rereading that?

Bill: I would not mind reading it. I, I, I just am so tickled by it every time I look at it. Parts. It's, it's, it's funny, it's, it's funny like watching a, an innocent child say or do something, uh, that they, they're doing and saying, given where they are in their perspective and in their experience, and having it land in such a, a way that of surprise. And yet every time I read it, I'm surprised by it. Parts are trying to help you have the best, difficult life you can have.

Marty: Well, we're so used to hearing the phrase, the best life,

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marty: the best difficult life. Throws a little monkey wrench in there, right?

Bill: I guess we could play with it a little bit. Yes. We could say something like, uh uh, let's take this course for this much money that it takes this much time outta my life. So that it'll change me. So that given who I am, I can be the very best version of the messed up person that I

Marty: Right, right, right. Would people sign up for that?

Bill: I don't know, uh, let's have people sign up. Alright. If you're interested in a program like that, just be sure to get ahold of me and, uh, I'll make, I'll make sure that I overcharge you for it and, uh, that you don't get anything from out of it. 'cause how could you? How could you possibly get anything? It's it, and, and I know I'm, I'm being ironic here, but I have paid for courses like that. Given, given that I'm broken, what's the best that I can do? Can you teach me, gimme some strategies and techniques? I

Marty: yeah, yeah. It's very, I think that, I don't know if it still is, but when I first got into coaching, that was very attractive. Like people wanted to kind of be berated, like, look how bad you are, and, and oh gosh, thank you. Now you know what to do, kind of thing, you know?

Bill: Oh, you really see me

Marty: Right. It was, it was a very popular way to. You know, for coaches to get into things, you would see people, you know, just like, you know, telling people how awful they were and they were just like, yeah, gimme more.

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marty: It was weird. Well, in, in retrospect, it, it seems to, but I wanted to, if I could ask a little bit about the very first part of that, parts are trying,

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marty: so does that mean that once they've been updated. That they, and they don't have to try anymore. Let's say we get to that place where I don't, right. Do they, do they go to The Bahamas or do they,

Bill: Well,

Marty: do they still,

Bill: they can, I suppose.

Marty: do they still hang out waiting to see if it's real or like.

Bill: You know, I think, I think it's really wise to renegotiate. Once a part realizes the job they've been doing is no, no longer necessary.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: If we don't help them transition to a new job or new role, then they're gonna recreate a situation where they can do their old job. 'cause they know it so well.

Marty: Oh, okay. Mm-hmm. I see. So, so we do need to. Redirect the energy that they have been using to try and give us the best messed up. We.

Bill: In a manner, protective parts become unburdened when they realize that the parts they've been trying to manage, help control, hide and change are okay. That they no longer pre, uh, present any kind of a threat to the survival That, that they're not shameful that they've been healed. One, once they realize, okay, my job for this particular exile, let's say, or for this, this particular area of my life, solved. I, job's done. So now they're immediately gonna wanna look around probably and find a similar, problem to, to solve.

Marty: I see.

Bill: they get helped to a new role and, and also helped. And the, and the IFS model has this built right into it, is that once an unburdening occurs, we wanna make sure that the space and lightness that opens up, uh, in the absence of the heaviness of the burden that it gets filled up or at least recognized that it can be filled up as an invitation to the part that's been unburdened. With resources and qualities that, that there wasn't room for before.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: So a part that maybe was critical can shift to a self-led discernment,

Marty: I see. Okay.

Bill: a part that made sure that you worked so hard that nobody got the idea that you might be lazy. That same part might shift to a self-led in industrious, innovative, creative role.

Marty: Got it. Got it. Beautiful. Awesome.

Bill: We are, I am out of time. Need to wrap up. I I, I don't know if you remember, but the thing I wanted to talk about today, and we never got to it. I'm not disappointed in the least. I love this conversation. It, and in fact, it's pretty cool that we get to talk about this in a future episode, and that is embarrassment in its relationship to Shane and all of the strategies that get formed out of that.

Marty: Uh, well, it went perfect for me. I thought we wanted to talk about that, that funny quotation. And we did. So I felt. I feel fulfilled, but yes, that, so a future episode, we will talk about embarrassment.

Bill: Next week we have, uh, a, a guest, excuse me. Alice Allison Dyer my co-host for the Parts work practice free practice group of, uh, for

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: work parts, work practice, and we've been working together in parts work practice for over four years now, offering these free sessions. And I asked her to come on the show to talk about take on True You

Marty: Okay,

Bill: she's delighted to join us and I am excited about having her. So she'll be our guest next week.

Marty: we look forward to meeting her.

Bill: So until then,

Marty: Take care.

Bill: for listening. Bye.