Bill: Marty, how you doing today?

Marty: I am great. Thank you for asking. How are you, bill?

Bill: I am good. I'm good. It's always nice to connect with you before we hit record. And uh, as you already know, I really enjoyed the, the newsletter that you sent out today. Uh, and I liked it so much that I thought we should talk about what you wrote about, which is contentment. And, uh, in fact, I copied and pasted. I copied and copied and pasted the last few pieces of that newsletter article that you put out because I really enjoyed the article and I think that it, it really is a good, uh, topic to bring into the True You Podcast. By the way, we've got, uh, we're lining up some new. Some guests for the show.

Marty: Yes,

Bill: Uh, I believe this is gonna be, yeah. Uh, this is, I believe, gonna be the third episode of the True You Podcast. Next week we're gonna be bringing in Alison Dyer and, uh, we have had it, we've had a couple of other people that said yes. We just have to get the dates nailed down and, and figure out when we're gonna have them on the show. But I'm really feeling great about the Switch from the Leadership Coaching podcast, which I love, and I'm happy about. To the True You podcast. I like, I love the feel and, and how, how it's a different focus than what we had before. Yeah,

Marty: Different and, and, and, um, sort of an. Upgrade of the past conversation, even, you know, crystallizing of where we've come from too. So it, it works beautifully.

Bill: yeah, yeah. Okay, so tell us, uh, tell us about your article. And, uh, you know what ins, I'd like to know what inspired you to write this particular article.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Um, well I was thinking about where it came from was I was thinking about, I. Um, in particular because I just read a book by Fred Luskin on forgiveness. It's called Forgive for Good. And um, Nora and I, Nora Stein and I, who is a guest on the Leadership podcast, we are facilitating a book club association with the Pro-Human Foundation. And that's where we read this book and it really got me thinking and. About the nature of forgiveness and, and it has influenced me. Uh, you know, like something gets under your skin, you start behaving differently. You're like, wow, that changed me. That book really did change me. Um, and so I'm, I'm feeling a lot more forgiving of, of things that I've done and other people have done and, and are going on in the world around me. And so I started to notice that there, there's, there's kind of like three stages and forgiveness is probably in the middle, so that, you know, it presupposes that you can accept. What is that, that you can forgive it? Like, okay, he done me wrong. That, you know, I, I can't change that. He will always have done me wrong, and I have to just accept that, that that is, that happened. And then I have the choice whether or not to forgive, um, which, um, sets, you know, sets the world in a different place, sets the energies in a different place. It's not just accepting them, but. Um, forgiving them. So there's, it is a more peaceful place to be, I would say, um, because you are no longer g uh, holding a grudge, you're no longer grieving. If you've really forgiven, then you've let it go. But then I also noticed there's something, there's something even deeper than that. He goes beyond that potentially. And that's where I got to contentment, been a theme of mine, since about the beginning of the year. I, uh, I've been reading some essays on contentment in, mostly in my spiritual practices . And, uh, I've noticed that that has, uh, really freed me up to make some important choices. So I noticed, okay, not only have I do you get to a place, can one, get to a place of forgiveness where you put the thing to bed, but then you can also be truly content. So a deeper level of peace than acceptance for forgiveness , where now new things start to happen, right? Creativity can come from and can only come from that place of. Of being content with the way things, things you've accepted, the way things are, and having forgiven that they're not the way you would want them to be. Now if you, you go to this next level of contentment, you can start to create inside a imperfect world.

Bill: As I'm listening, I'm distinguish distinguishing that forgiveness and acceptance are a process that takes us from a state of incompletion or un unresolved

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: to completion or resolved.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: the result of that is maybe a category of state of being called contentment, and within that are resources now that you have access to, such as creativity.

Marty: Right. And so that's so exactly

Bill: I.

Marty: You what you, you recreated me perfectly. Another angle of my thinking that led to this article was that I was thinking about a number of situations in my personal life, but also, you know, that, that we all are familiar with in, in the world where, um, there's this competition for priority. Um, you know, fighting for the boss, fighting for the job of manager or boss, or, one of the main ones for me is I, I think about the arms race. You know, we, we've gotta match each other, you know, and agree to stay at that level. Because you know, if if we have more than our opponent, then they would win in some weird sense 'cause we're all gonna be dead anyway. And so I was thinking about this and reminded me of what's referred to in game theory as a prisoner's dilemma. There are, I mean, if you took any introductory philosophy class, you probably ran across the prisoner's dilemma. There are lots of versions of it, but it's when you've got. You know, some situation where two people

Bill: How about we, just, rather than you explaining it, uh, let's go to what you put in your newsletter. How's that?

Marty: Okay, great.

Bill: Do you have that in front of you? I do. Would you like me to read it? Unless you have it, I, I'd prefer that you read it if you have it right there.

Marty: Okay. Yeah, I could do that. Um, so this comes from a book that was written on the topic by William Poundstone back in 1993. The name of the book is The Prisoner's Dilemma.

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marty: And here's a typical version of what it would look like. Two members of a criminal gang are arrested and imprisoned. Each prisoner is in solitary confinement with no means of speaking to or exchanging messages with the other. The police admit they don't have enough evidence to convict the pair on the principal charge. They plan to sentence both of them to a year in prison on a lesser charge. the police offer each person a Faustian bargain. he testifies against his partner, will go free while the partner will get three years in prison on the main charge. Oh yes, there's a catch. If both prisoners testify against each other, both will be sentenced to two years in jail. The prisoners are given a little, are given little time to think it's over, but in no case may either learn what the other has decided until he's irrevocably made his decision. Each is informed that the other prisoners being offered the same deal. Each prisoner is concerned only with his own welfare, minimizing his own prison sentence.

Bill: Wow.

Marty: Right. So, which, what do you do? Do you give the other, do you give the other guy away and then, you know, you get, oh, you get off scot free, but he's in jail, or do you, you know, keep the secret and then you both go to jail? Right. The what's a, it's a dilemma.

Bill: Okay, so tie this now back together with the, the idea of contentment.

Marty: So the idea of contentment is that you, you, you go through accepting the terms, like, okay, this is the situation. There's to deal with. You go through forgiving. That the other guy, you know, he's probably gonna act on his personal needs himself. Like I would, you know, and you forgive him for that, and you get to a place of contentment. And I think what you would say at that point, you know, me on this is I'm gonna do the right thing. I'm, I'm not going to, I'm not gonna send my partner to jail. I am gonna accept the consequences of that, like in the, in the, uh, you know, nuclear arms race. It would be, if we were to just start to dismantle, like say, this is ridiculous, are we pointing guns at each other with The only way this could ever go is that we destroy both of us. There's the prisoner's dilemma. So let's just, you know, the right thing to do come from contentment with. You know the situation and forgiveness of the other and just start dismantling our arms.

Bill: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So hard to imagine in today's, in today's culture, in today's environment that

Marty: And why? 'cause we're largely discontent,

Bill: Oh, yeah, yeah, the po.

Marty: discontent. We'd rather. We'd rather, you know, uh, just, just make life even more miserable. But that's, that's

Bill: it's

Marty: really. I mean, I use the examples to bring this down to like, you know, one-on-one relationships. I bring this down to the examples of like, you know, um, like we're in an argument with him. good friend or your spouse and you just won't let go. You just, you know, like I'm, I know that this is ruin the relationship, but I'm not going to let go. I'm gonna be right about it no matter what.

Bill: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Marty: Right? Instead of like forgiving yourself the other person, you know, accepting we have different views, forgive them for having a different view. And, and just say, you know, for the sake of sanity here, you know, I'm, I'm gonna be content with letting you have your view and not arguing about this anymore.

Bill: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that, um. Holding, holding, being right loosely is, uh, such, such a gift to give to yourself. By the way, I, I, uh, heard Brene Brown, I believe, I believe it was Brene Brown that was saying in one of her most recent books, or at least the last one that I listened to. She used this phrase, I don't need to be right about this several times throughout the book.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: And, uh, uh, I loved that phrase so much that I adopted it for myself. Because it, more than anything, it's a reminder to myself, but it's also a way to create safety in a conversation. I want you to know that I don't need to be right about this. In other words, I'm not really attached to the right, to being right or wrong, but this is, this is the way I see it. I,

Marty: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that, I think that that smells a lot like contentment to me.

Bill: I think it's on the way to contentment. I think it creates the possibility for contentment because it creates the it, it has the potential of creating safety. It depends, of course, on the other person as well in a conversation. It takes two, it only takes one and for me to, for me to feel satisfied and content if I am completely internally harmonized and aligned,

Marty: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Bill: if I have any kind of codependency at all with the other person where I'm not okay until you are.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: Then it's only the possibility of safety

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: and that it has to be negotiated with some give and take back and forth.

Marty: Right, right.

Bill: For example, if I, if I threw out, Hey, listen, I don't need to be right about this, but it sure seems to me that blah, blah, blah, blah, and

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: the other person says, no, you're absolutely wrong about that.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: And I noticed, oh wow. I must have just been using that as a strategy because that triggered something in me just now.

Marty: God.

Bill: apparently, I do need to be right about this.

Marty: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, here's an example, a personal example I'm not sure myself, I'm

Bill: Okay.

Marty: myself on, on in these terms. I offered two workshops, um, this season and one of the. Was purchased, has participants, and it's going great, and the other one did not attract a soul.

Bill: Hmm.

Marty: So I am, I'm thinking there's something I didn't, I wasn't content with about that second one, right? But the energy wasn't right for people to jump in.

Bill: Yeah. Yeah.

Marty: And the other one I was, I, I was content. Like I, I was on offer and, and it had a, a vibration of contention in it and people took it, took it on.

Bill: Interesting, huh.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: you know what I'm hearing from you is that you know that when you generated these two workshops, one, the one that was successful was generated at least in the end with contentment. By the time you released it, you were content.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Yes.

Bill: The other, what was it? Had you settled? Was it just good enough or you was something off and you didn't, you didn't take the time to

Marty: This is the inquiry I'm in right now. I don't know what exactly was I not content with

Bill: I see, I see.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: But you know, you weren't content or are you saying that you know, you weren't considered or that logically you must not have been?

Marty: Both.

Bill: Okay. Yeah.

Marty: I mean, it fits the logic of what we're talking about and I can feel it too.

Bill: There. Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's this knowing when someone says, I was just telling this earlier today. I watched, uh, an interview with Viktor Frankl.

Marty: Hmm.

Bill: This was fantastic. One of the most powerful things I've ever experienced or watched, observed the interviewer asks him about his experience in the concentration camps.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: And, and the question, what the, the question the interviewer asked was, did you believe in God?

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: And Frankl said, oh yeah, absolutely. I believed in God. Pause. The interviewer says, do you believe in God Now after seeing everything that happened, he said, no, no, I did not. I don't. Really the interviewer said, he said, yeah, you don't have to believe something when you know it.

Marty: That is powerful. That is so beautiful. I mean that, that really speaks to a. So sort of an A knowing from the heart as opposed to from argumentation or an inference or something mental.

Bill: Yeah. I, I, for me, it seems like both have to be involved and they both need to be in harmony.

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: So what logically makes sense, harmonizes somehow with. With my heart that says, yep, this is good. There's nothing to be worried about here. Nothing to be careful about.

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: true.

Marty: And maybe that's got something to do with the, the, the deepening of forgiveness into contentment. I'm, I'm just speculating on my own theory here,

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marty: right, that makes good sense to forgive, right? That to let go of that negative energy that you've been generating, the grievance that you've had with somebody, know, you, you, you, there's a reason to do it.

Bill: It's as logical to forgive as it is illogical to continue to hang on to resentment.

Marty: That's right, but contentment, there's, there's no, there's no logical reason to be content. There's plenty of reasons not to be, but it comes from a different place. It's not, it's,

Bill: Uh,

Marty: knowing versus believing in God. It's, it comes from a different place.

Bill: just this morning I was in the kitchen by myself preparing a meal and noticing my. Joyful energy

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: and remembering well, decades ago, but still it feels almost like it was yesterday. Remembering when after a year of not having a drink of alcohol at the age of 28, experiencing about an hour where I wasn't suffering. And I was experiencing joy,

Marty: Hmm.

Bill: and it was the first time I'd had that experience since I was a little kid.

Marty: Wow.

Bill: And, and, and it was, it really got my attention for me at 28 years old, less than a year sobriety, or about a year sober. For me to notice something like that, uh, it had to be pretty profound because I was pretty numb. Pretty turned off to, to awareness and insight, and it really got my attention. And so I started paying more attention. How often is this gonna happen Because, and what did I do to produce this?

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: What did I do to, because this is delicious. I love this hour of joy. What happened? Well, gosh, nothing really in particular. I, I can't really re reproduce this. I don't know what caused it, so how can I reproduce it? It.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: just gonna start watching to see if I had more experiences of it. Now, at that time, I really wanted to believe, hope that, that it was true, that if I got and remained sober, the longer I did that, the better my life would get. That hadn't actually been the case up to that point.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: It was better in that I wasn't it. It was almost like better when you put a tourniquet on something and on your arm when you otherwise might be bleeding out

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: it. It was better in that way. I stayed alive. And I wasn't, I I, so I stopped the bleeding. It wasn't getting worse, but it wasn't getting better either.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: So I started watching, and then within a month or two, I noticed that I was having more than one one hour experience of joy throughout a particular week. Like, whoa, things are getting better. What? Why? Is it Because the only thing I could conclude was because I was staying sober longer.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: must have to do with the accumulation of sobriety. I concluded. I don't agree with that now. I don't believe that now, but that was my most current theory at that time was, the reason I'm experiencing little bits of joy here is because I'm sober long enough. Then it, I had a whole day where I wasn't suffering. It wasn't joyful all day, but I wasn't suffering. I had a full day of not suffering,

Marty: Uh.

Bill: and then I had days in a row, and then I had a full week of nausea. So now today I'm out. I'm out in the kitchen. I've been sober 42 years. Is it because I've been sober 42 years that I have so much joy? Hell no. No. It's not that I can adamantly say it's not because I've been sober this long. It didn't hurt to be sober this long,

Marty: was gonna say, right.

Bill: but, but because what's being sober this long gave me an opportunity to do was to to heal. To do the work required in order to heal my past and to the degree that I have healed that past using IFS language. Now self-energy has emerged

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: self-energy is joyful. It just bubbles over

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: it's impeded by a concern or burden part.

Marty: Right.

Bill: So you're talking about contentment. Joy is one, maybe. Aspect of contentment

Marty: Yeah. it's, I Joy sends me like contentment on steroids, right?

Bill: Drunk, contentment. Drunk? No, just kidding.

Marty: right. Ex, you know, blissful, ecstatic.

Bill: yeah.

Marty: are, yes, those are all derivatives of contentment, I would think.

Bill: But just like 40, just like 41 years ago when I couldn't really. Explain it. There wasn't anything that I had done to feel joy. I wasn't joyful because I just won the lottery or because of, I love my new brand new car, which I don't have, but it, there was no putting it together in that way. It was just, there is this joy that seems to be percolating through my entire being. How wonderful. God, just grateful for it.

Marty: All right, which is the MAD's true self energy.

Bill: I do also remember early in recovery being around people like me and I didn't like them at all. I thought they were phony because what I saw them experiencing appeared to be manufactured. How could that be real? How could somebody have that much joy every single time that I see them?

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: How can somebody be that? What I would've called at that time positive? I. But, but now I realize that some, at least of those people actually had organic natural joy percolating up through them just as I've been experiencing lately.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Well, and there's also that there is the phenomenon of people having manufactured joy, you know, and,

Bill: Sure. Yeah.

Marty: You might have been sensitive to the fact that don't, you know, know who they were or what was going on, but also happens, you know, that, that we, we get turned off because it is manufactured. It's

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: it's not coming from a genuine connection to the true self,

Bill: Right. So a part in, in a case like that, a part of them is performing joy

Marty: right.

Bill: because it looks like those people that are actually experiencing joy over there are getting what they want. Maybe joy will help me get what I want.

Marty: Right, so

Bill: let me perform that.

Marty: so that we would say joy, that joy is not coming from content.

Bill: And, and it's not joy at all. It's just a, it's just a, an imitation of it.

Marty: right.

Bill: And

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: self-like parts, that's what we say in IFS. This is a self-like part that's trying to use the resources or qualities of self and perform them, uh, in order to get an, an outcome. Whereas from self energy, joy, courage, uh. Confidence, compassion. Those are just natural expressions of the joy of, of the self state.

Marty: Right, right.

Bill: I wanna read something from your article, unless you had another thought that I'm interrupting.

Marty: No, go right ahead.

Bill: Okay. This is towards the end of the article, which basically kind of sums up what you wrote about in the article. So I won't give away the entire article. I, I hope we will. I hope that, that the listener will read it for themselves, will provide a link in show notes. Uh, the name of the article again is, is It Contentment or something else?

Marty: Optimum resource.

Bill: Ooh, I missed that. That's the, yeah, now that you say it, I remember that, that was the name of the article. Why did you call it that?

Marty: Because contentment is that optimum resource, the, the, the most the best resource for, um, uh, the creative, the problem solving the. Relationship building, all those aspects of us, it's like, you know, it's, it's more of, it's a bigger, better resource than time or money or water or, or coal or anything you can come up with.

Bill: Contentment. So, wow. I, I really, I like that so much. I, I might have to borrow it for myself and with my coaching clients to refer to, um, self, the, the self energized and the self-led state as, as contentment. It seems kind of blase, the word itself seems kind of blase, whereas self-energy and self-leadership seems to have a bit of a rocket boost to it. But in fact. Self-energy doesn't have to have a rocket boost to it. It can be just, it can be the calmest energy in the entire room. In fact, that's, that's kind of the optimum resource right there. Con calm contentment. Now that we're talking about this, I think we need a ninth or 10th C here. Contentment of the, of the, if Fs eight Cs, we need a ninth or 10th. I say ninth or 10th because there's several other C words like choice is one of them that's not included in the eight Cs. Contentment. Alright, let me read this. Contentment is the place inside where you are no longer driven by reaction, but free. Let's stop there. Parts react. Self led parts don't react. Burdened parts react

Marty: Right.

Bill: and they react from the past. When parts that are self-led influence us in our current life and that, and, and that reflects current reality, I would have to say that those parts respond.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: offer their resources because they're specialized. They have, they have special skills and knowledge and experience that they can offer to the situation that's reflected in the current reality. It's relevant currently. It's not distorted by a a, an incomplete past so that you're no longer driven by burdened parts that are reacting. You are free.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: Anything you wanna comment about that before I go to the next sentence? I.

Marty: just that, um, way I, the sort of like the image that I have of, of contentment is, you know, having accepted and forgiven all that is containing it all, being willing to contain it all. And so, you know, there's, there's no outside of it. It's not like I'm different from I'm better than, you know, or any, or I'm afraid of like there's no relationship to the other. It, you are all of it. And so that's why there's no reaction.

Bill: Here's what I just got. Contentment and containment our very closely related

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: containment doesn't mean. Okay. Limiting something in the context that you just used it. Containment means that you have the space or capacity to hold whatever is there with a little despair, maybe A lot Despair. Yeah. Containment, contentment, ample capacity. Nice.

Marty: Mm-hmm. Right.

Bill: Okay. I'm gonna read this next line. Hope to create and commit to a purpose. Derives from contentment that that seems to be saying that there's not a great deal of hope, if any, to be able to create anything new or to commit to anything along the lines of, of a, of a purpose, something meaningful

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: if you're not content.

Marty: That's right. That's right. Um, like, if I, if I'm still. Incomplete with something holding a grudge or, um, uh, of right? Then anything that's quote unquote created in that context is, is really just a reaction to, it's not, it's not a free creation. Um, and so, you know, to to, to get to that. which, because I did both of those workshops, it was helpful for me to see. I didn't have just the one that didn't sell. I also knew the experience of having one that did sell. So I was able to get to a place of contentment, but I, I know that I can do this. I don't have an issue with, you know, creating and offering and selling a workshop. It's something else. Right? And so that left me with a, a kind of courage to, to look at what did, what was missing over here on this side, right? Which I wouldn't have had if I, if I only had the failure, I'd be, I, would've been dis distraught about that and probably unable to, to, to look at it with clear eyes.

Bill: Beautiful. You, you may not have had the capacity to hold it so loosely.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: That you could get clarity about what might be going on. You, you're not completely clear yet. You still have, don't understand it,

Marty: Right.

Bill: but you have the capacity right now. You're content, and that means that you have the capacity to both be with what didn't work and be curious about it. And I bet you also have a little bit of faith here. Right now, it's, it goes beyond hope, I think. I think you might even have faith, correct me if I'm wrong, that you will come to some clarity about this.

Marty: Yes, that's right.

Bill: And isn't there something inside that won't let you not,

Marty: Yes, there is. Yeah. What is that? Do you have a name for

Bill: I call that the itch. Yeah,

Marty: edge. Uhhuh

Bill: itch ITCH.

Marty: Right? Yearning. Yearning,

Bill: yes. Yes.

Marty: mm-hmm.

Bill: The why

Marty: yearning.

Bill: I recognized a long time ago, even maybe as a child. That I seem to be afflicted with. Why? I had to know why. That's the itch

Marty: Yes.

Bill: and, and, and the why often gets exiled. It.

Marty: just notice how different and itch that is than one where you're not content.

Bill: Well, there's some discontent for me in having an an unscratched itch.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: Even when it's pure like this.

Marty: Well, I mean, suddenly I'm reminded of, uh, one time we, and my housemate and I did a picnic out in the back of our, in the garden area of our house. This is a long time ago when I was living um, Lafayette, Colorado. I. And as I was serving the food, there was a fly that landed on my forehead and was just, you know, walking around on my forehead. But I, I was holding these dishes and serving the food. And my housemate, Noreen, um, Maureen, I called her Mo, she noticed, and she's like, didn't that itch, didn't you want to swat the fly away? And I was just like, well, I knew it was there, but I was content with it being there. Right. Like I,

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marty: something else. There's that purpose part.

Bill: Yeah,

Marty: the purpose of serving the food. I wasn't gonna drop the food to swap the fly. And, so I, I, I was content with having that itch. Mm-hmm.

Bill: acceptance part of it. So you, you talked about that earlier. I'm wondering if that's here too. You, you talk about acceptance and forgiveness that leads to contentment. So you accept that there's a fly.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: around on my head. I got my hands full of food. I wanna just deliver this food. None of the other options are, are, are acceptable. I don't wanna set the food down, swat the fly, pick up the food again. I don't want to, I don't wanna slam the food into my head to get the fly. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna stay on my purpose. I'm gonna deliver the food

Marty: That's right,

Bill: and just make friends with the fly on my forehead.

Marty: And you know, it's like similarly with the, I have a friend who had a big blowout with last fall and um, know, we're working on forgiveness and that relationship and, you know, I've come to a place of. Contentment with the fact that we're not totally resolved. and that has allowed me to see that my larger purpose in that relationship, is to love him, basically. You know, he's a great guy. Even though we had this blowout and I've still got my issues with it, see that my larger purpose in this relationship, I, I love him.

Bill: Mm-hmm.

Marty: And so that, you know, I'm aligned with that. Even though you know there's still stuff to resolve.

Bill: Great example. So there must be degrees of contentment then we're, we've been talking about the itch, what I'm calling the itch. That that thing inside that just won't let you leave it alone. The until, until it, it's aligned, it's, it's balanced, it's harmonized, and it's resolved. I'm calling it that the itch. And I just mentioned before, you should. That, that there's some discontent in having an itch that doesn't get, I said scratched, but I really mean healed.

Marty: Right, right. Well, I guess I'm thinking of the difference. This might not be what you're thinking of, so I'm Don't have to be right about this.

Bill: We'll see. Huh?

Marty: But I'm thinking of the difference between A, a yearning that E, even if I were enlightened, I would be yearning for more of it. Like

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: you talked about

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: that, that having a good, you know, a happy moment or a good day and just like, well, this could go on and on. I didn't, you know, I just want more of it.

Bill: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Marty: Versus an, you know, a, an a yearning or an itch, um, in a, in a psychological or a physical realm that demands to be to.

Bill: Yeah.

Marty: Right there, there, there's a, I'm, I'm thinking, you know, that there's no end to the kind of yearning that, you know, of a spiritual nature. Like, gosh, yeah, just gimme more of that.

Bill: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Marty: versus, you know, like my relationship with my, my friend, you know, I, I want that to get resolved. Right. That's different and I don't want it. I don't want to be yearning for that forever. I want

Bill: You,

Marty: to get complete.

Bill: right? Yeah. Yeah. So I'm noticing time

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: and I'm, I appreciate my timekeeper part. Let me finish out the, the last few things to read from this article, and then if it's okay with you, I'd like to wrap up and prepare for my men's group that I'll be meeting with here in about 15 minutes. So what I'm gonna read two lines that I've already read so that it flows right into the rest of this. Again, this is the end of of the article. Optimum. Optimum Resource Contentment is the place inside where you are no longer driven by reaction, but free hope to create and commit to a purpose derives from contentment. Contentment is the source of the wherewithal needed to give, share and pay it forward. I can see that if we had more time, we could, we could PE around this one a little bit too. I love that line. Yes, yes, of course. I hear you say, but how do I get content? Perfect question. You already know the way to be content. It's just that you're still making it other not accepting, not forgiving. Not integrating holistically, examine your heart. It may not be on top, but contentment is in there. It's your original nature. Before there was another, as such, before you began reacting to life, there's nowhere to go and nothing to do to be content. Beautifully written, Martin. Very nice. Thanks for letting us talk about this today.

Marty: Well, thanks for bringing it, bringing it to this conversation. It. It does really fit nicely with our theme and, and, um, I, I, I hope that people do go read it. the, the link to the article will be in the show

Bill: That's right. That's right.

Marty: Thanks for that.

Bill: yeah.

Marty: all the attention on it. I

Bill: Well, I, it's almost like I couldn't not talk about it after reading the article and we had this opportunity today. I do wanna, uh. Say more about what you just said, which is that that what we've been talking today absolutely. Is congruent with the theme of the True You podcast.

Marty: Mm-hmm.

Bill: Everything that we've been talking about is either the disconnection from who we really are or the alignment with who we really are. And when I'm talking about joy and we're talking about all the other DI different aspects of contentment. Also known as self-energy or self-leadership. Uh, what we're really talking about is the benefits of being just who we actually are and, and doing, going through whatever process is necessary to drop and let go of the attempt to be anybody else. And that's what I know IFS helps with. I know that your meditation helps you with that. Your music, uh, there's so many different. Pat's, you said it right here. There's nowhere to go and nothing to do to be content. It's there. And paradoxically, there's some things to do to discover that it's there. Okay, Marty, another great conversation. Next week we'll be talking to Allison Dyer and we'll be learning all about her ideas and experiences, uh, around. Her, her story and her loss of connection with true, authentic self and her recovery and rediscovery and, and now generation from her true, authentic self.

Marty: Wonderful. I

Bill: Until,

Marty: to that.

Bill: yes. Until then, see you next week.