Self Care is Leadership

Bill: Well, welcome to another episode of the Leadership Coaching Podcast with Dr. Martin Kettlehut. Known to me as Marty, known to others as Doc. Welcome Marty. Good to see you. And I'm Bill Tierney. I'm a results coach and a certified IFS practitioner. And today our topic is self care. And, uh, the reason that we're talking about self care today is because recently in a group that I had last week, um, during the check in period, which the participants only get a minute a piece. So in that minute, they, they really boiled everything down to what do I really want to have heard? What do I want to say? Um, and there were seven participants in that particular group. So almost everybody was there. And I think six of those people said something. That indicated to me were struggling with self care. They felt overwhelmed, they were fatigued, they weren't getting enough sleep, they were stressed out, these kinds of

Marty: I see. Mm hmm.

Bill: So after they each had done their check in, I said, I'm hearing a common theme. Self care and I'm looking back on the zoom screen at my, at my group participants and they're all going. Yes,

Marty: You got it.

Bill: about that.

Marty: Good listening. Mm

Bill: So then that's why I proposed it to do to you and you and I have, you know, we've talked a little bit about this before we hit record because we want to, we want to manage the time during this episode. Well, and so what we've decided is that for the first 20 minutes or so, I'd like to hear from you about your ideas around self care because you've written about it extensively in your book. Yeah.

Marty: hmm. Both of my books, actually.

Bill: both your books. Okay. So I, I want to just kind of hand it off to you and just know that I'm going to probably jump in and interrupt you and ask questions.

Marty: Perfect. Yeah. And then, and then we'll go to the, you've got some, uh, five questions. Questions for us around this that I think will be very useful to the listener. So I would be just begin by, by acknowledging that there, there are different levels or aspects of self to take care of. And, um, so, you know, I think one of the first things that the average, I would imagine the average listener hears is, oh, self care, you mean like getting a pedicure and, um. Right? Like, that's take a self care day off of work, right? And, and, you know, go do something nice for yourself, which is great. That is part of self care for sure. Nothing to belittle about that, but we're complex beings, we not only have, you know, nails to take care of, we have a very powerful tool in our head to take care of as well. So taking care of the brain. Um, you know, by doing mindfulness exercises, for example, um, you know, or seeing a therapist, you know, getting the healing that we need psychologically, mentally, and also like things like playing Sudoku or Sudoku, I forget which way it goes.

Bill: never get it right. Can

Marty: that's taking I remember my mom would she would do the crossword puzzle every Sunday the hardest one in the Chicago Tribune Which by the way is known on the East Coast, That was taking care of her herself, her brain, right? She didn't want to, you know, neglect, but if you really want to do a pop down approach, then you, what you're going to take care of the self is going to be being who and what you were meant to be in this life, living your purpose. And if you're doing that, then in the same way that this elm tree that I'm looking at here is doing a perfect job of living its purpose, right? It's, it's, it's showing us the way it's leading, right? And in that it by being its purpose, and when you are taking care of yourself by living your purpose, then you're doing your purpose. Being who you were meant to be in this life, you are leading us all because that in at many levels inspires us, not just because we look at it and go, oh, that's the right way to be. But, but it is. energetically and, and pragmatically, you've, we fit into that. Like, it makes sense. Uh, you're being the, what nature meant for you to be. And so we all get led in the right direction when that happens. So, um, I think that

Bill: Can I just jump in and pause for just, I want to share a thought before I lose it.

Marty: Sure.

Bill: Um, so I'm just thinking in terms of all the different businesses that I've been in and I've been in a lot of different businesses, the grocery business, I was in management in the grocery business. I was in property and casualty insurance. I sold cars. I was a real estate agent for a blink. I was a mortgage loan officer. And of course, now I've been a coach since 2000. And in all of those experiences, one thing there was in common was that there was special training. Some of it was required by for licensing. Some of it was was recommended by the employer. Some of it was required by the employer and each each of those trainings would address whatever it was that we needed to know and understand to be able to better do the job that that we were required to do. That I was attempting to do as I'm listening to you, you're talking about, um, living your purpose. Well, a lot of the trainings that I attended were around the idea of, for example, what is your why and what is your purpose and how do you live your purpose? And how can you, how can you inject your, your values into that purpose? All of that, while it's important and valuable and was interesting and helpful is not the elm tree who is not at least in the least bit concerned about a mission statement. or telling anybody, this is, these are my purpose. This is my purpose. These are my values. We look at the tree and we know what it's, what its purpose is. And you mentioned earlier, the birds, the birds are living their purpose. Um, they're not announcing it. They're not describing it. They're not trying to live into it. They're actually living it. So just some thoughts that were crossing my mind as you, as you shared, sorry for the interruption. I just

Marty: No, no, that's great. Because I mean, this just goes to show like, if you've got a mission statement or a purpose statement that isn't just like the elm trees or the birds, it's just. how there is to be, then it's probably not authentic. It's probably not actually it's it's it's contrived in some way.

Bill: It's, it's got a should in there. Maybe. It's, it's, it's built on, on the, on the foundation of should I, this is who I should be, this is what my purpose should be. And, and again, I, I really don't wanna discount any of these trainings. They were amazing. They really did help me to explore and, and examine what's important to me, what's valuable to me if, if I were actually living a life. That was, was driven by what is important and valuable to me. How would it look different than this life that I'm living now? And what's the gap there? These are really important conversations because I've been pretty lost in my life. Really lost. And so far off center. So this gets back to your point about that. There are all these different levels, dimensions of self that need to be cared for. And what I'm referring to right now is my true authentic self. I didn't even know who I was, let alone know how to, how to take care of myself.

Marty: exactly. And, and, you know, the method, one of the method, I should say one of the methods that I use in my coaching and in my book. You can follow it yourself. It's in part for the workbook for finding for discovering what is my purpose authentically, not as a should. Is by start. It starts with looking at what's valuable. What is important? What to me and and that's the first step to find to finding your purpose. And there's there are a few more steps to derive it from that. But, um. You know, that's going to tell you how you authentically, uh, want to, and, and can live. And when you're doing that, because it fits, like there's a, there's a, there's a kaching that happens. And that you can tell people who are living their purpose. They're lit up, right? They're, They're content and they're, they're powerful and it's catchy. You mean it's, it's, you, you want to be like that too. And you, one naturally starts living one's own purpose when you're around somebody like that.

Bill: They're driven, they're inspired, they're motivated, they're focused, they're, they've got momentum. These are all aspects. Of living purpose and I, I also want to just throw

Marty: Even from within, I would want to specify as opposed to, you know, somebody who's a grinder. It's not driven from within, it's from, you know, somewhere else that that drive comes from.

Bill: well, even that though, uh, maybe this is too fine a distinction, but I want to make it anyhow is that if you're driven from within, you may be driven from parts of yourself that have been informed by, uh, and conditioned by external pressures. I have to be like dad. I have to not be like dad.

Marty: So that's not, that's not what I mean by from within then.

Bill: it is, I know that that's not what you mean, but I, but I do want to draw that distinction because that comes from within. These parts are within me. And they're in charge when my true authentic self is not. And so what maybe we want to involve this to like good proper self care from the level of trust and authentic self would recognize that, that what's driving life might be a part of me. That's still tethered and stuck in the past tethered to and stuck in the past. And, and so there's, there's that to notice and good self care would be, you mentioned it earlier, possibly go into therapy, doing whatever's necessary to realign to true authentic self. So that, that internal impetus. It's not grinding. It is almost impossible to stop.

Marty: It's free, yeah, it's just doing what it's meant to do, exactly. It's, It's, life, life just flows and, and, and there's peace, contentment, and power, and effectiveness all at once.

Bill: Yes. Easy. And without effort. Without effort.

Marty: Yeah, just like the elm tree, you know. We become like. That's why we want to use a natural analogy, an analogy to something in nature, because that's how we, that's when we're living our purposes, when we're doing what is natural, as opposed to some contrivance.

Bill: There's an alignment that happens. Just before we hit record, you were telling me about what you do at the end of the day. Would you mind telling that story for our listeners to hear?

Marty: I might have even mentioned this before in one of our episodes. I just have a personal ritual every night before bed. I go outside, even if it's freezing out, you know, or raining, and I let my thoughts go, you know. It's great if the stars are out because then I can sort of imagine where they're going, but sometimes it's cloudy and I still, I just let it all go so that I'm, I don't bring all that stuff to bed with me and what is starting to happen is there are a couple of rabbits. That live in the neighborhood that they expect they're there at that spot where I normally stand. They are there now every night. And I thought, well, I'm gonna, you know, get out of their way and not disturb them, let them do their thing. So I moved to a different spot where they followed me. They seem to want to be around me when I'm thoughtless, right? When I'm out of my mind. And in, just in the natural peace of the evening. And it's just delightful. The, the, it's consistent now. Every night they're there.

Bill: That's amazing. It reminds me of that old song. Was it Joni Mitchell that sang it? Somebody in that era that sang it? Why do birds suddenly appear?

Marty: Exactly, right?

Bill: There's something that happens in the field. In the energetic field that we live and breathe in. That changes how living things around us react to us, whether it's walking into a grocery store and greeting someone with authentic joy and watching them perk up vice versa. I mean, I've, I'll, I'll be having, you know, an off day or I'm preoccupied with my thinking about a project. I'll walk into Home Depot and, uh, one of the employees there will say something in such a way where I recognize that really. Yeah. Their energy is connecting to mine and lifting me up. It can go the other way around, of course, as well.

Marty: Yeah,

Bill: Self care. Self care. So, this, this phrase, which is what we're calling this episode, self care is leadership. Can I ask you to talk about that some more? I know you've already been talking about it, but, address that directly, please.

Marty: Well, you know, another analogy just came to mind. Um, if you've ever sung in a choir or played in an orchestra or rock band, for that matter, I'm sorry, my association with all these old classical ways of doing things, but it doesn't matter if you're in a musical ensemble and you're playing your part. Well, the way it's meant to be played, right? Then everybody knows where the beat is. They know what the harmonies are supposed to be. You're doing your, and so everybody then clicks into the ensemble and things work. It's, and so similarly, you know, when you're living your purpose, like when you're playing your part right, All that, that's a problematic word, but you know what I mean, when you're being your purpose, when you're living,

Bill: When you're aligned to your purpose,

Marty: yeah, yeah,

Bill: right? Yeah.

Marty: When you are embodying,

Bill: When you are your purpose. Yes.

Marty: who you're meant to be in this life, naturally, Right. I don't mean meant to be because your dad said so or meant to be because the governor said so. I mean, naturally then you are, you are, you're leading because now when you, you. Where you're supposed to be and how you're supposed to be. And so we can be how we're supposed to be the, you know, there's no, there's no agenda to get over. No, no psychological babble to deal with. It's just, you know, like puzzle pieces fitting together.

Bill: You know, I, I was telling you about that's beautiful and it reminds me of what I was just listening to this morning. Uh, as I was in my truck, I plugged in the book I've been listening to. That's a shift by Derek Depri who we're going to have on the podcast And he is a most motivational speaker, trainer, and coach. And as I'm listening to his book, Oh, I hope I don't lose it now. This is in reference to something that you were just, Oh, he's the one that, that, that has all these great questions about that will help shift someone from a place that may I'll use my words, disempowerment to empowerment by, by just having them explore and examine what, where is your power? Where isn't it? And are you using the power that you that you actually have? Um, I'm going to, I'm going to stop there because I've actually lost the thread of what I wanted to say to you. And I think the reason I lost it is because I now I'm thinking about having Derek on, on the podcast and I don't want to give away too much before he shows up.

Marty: Okay, that's cool. Um, but yeah, I mean, that transformation question like that, there are things just to just to put a cap on this part of the conversation. I think that if I'm picking up on the gist of where you're going with the debris, um, citation to shift, you know, when we are transformed and healed and are just able to be our natural selves. Right? That's that. Um, that is leadership, not in the conventional sense that we think about it, but in the natural sense and now others are also free to be themselves. They don't have to deal with somebody who's in authentic and out of character. And they, they, they can, they can ease into. Oh, you're being you. I can be me. Mm

Bill: you know, someone that's, that's, uh, having a bad day. Um, you know, I, I gave the Home Depot example, but it couldn't, it can go the other way as well. And in fact, it was my wife and I were at the grocery store the other day. And we like to go through the self checkout because at this particular grocery store, there is always a long, long line. They have just exactly the number of checkstands open to make you wait at least 20 minutes before you can get checked out. Except, unless you go through self checkout, self care checkout. They've got a sign that says something like, Please limit your purchases to no more than 18 or so items. Well, eh, we fudge on that. And so we were, In the, in the check stand and I punched in the number for, uh, the wrong produce item. So they had to call somebody over to help. And when that somebody came over to help, they saw how many items that we had, which was probably double what we should have had. And she scolded us and neither my wife nor I said anything wisely because if either one of us had said anything at all, it would have been probably. It was like a counterpunch, uh, because that's what it felt like. It felt like we'd just been reprimanded and scolded and shamed the way that she said it and her whole, whole attitude and our, both our energies went way down. Of course, the way we brought them back up again is as we're in the parking lot and we're walking out to the truck, we start just saying all the things that we really wanted to say out loud to each other. And we're laughing by the time we get to the truck and I'm really glad that we didn't respond here. I'm going to go back to Derek again. So in the book, what I was listening to this morning, he tells about, He wanted so badly to be a head coach on a basketball team, and one of the things that happened was when he was one of the assistant coaches, um, the head coach during a practice said something to him that was so shaming and derogatory that it kicked him out of his Purpose out of his alignment, it really had him hurt. It hurt him. It really had him question himself. So I'll say, I'll just say that much about about that part of the book as another example of we lead some there's sometimes there's poor leadership and sometimes there's great leadership. If we're practicing good self care. At all the levels that we can healing, education, physical, brain, mental, all of everything spiritual, then we're going to be good leaders in the world. And I think that's essentially what you're saying, isn't it?

Marty: yes, it is. Mm hmm. Yeah, I think it's in and it's an important lead different thing to say about leadership and self care than I've heard.

Bill: Well, yeah, it is. Well, that's that's kind of why we're doing this podcast is because. We want to have a slightly different, slightly, if not made big, big difference in the message that we give about leadership.

Marty: So there's nothing, there's nothing like different or separate to do to be a leader. If you're being who you're meant to be. You're leaving, right? Like, even, I don't want to take this too far afield, but this, it's the funniest things have been happening to me today, or recently, this morning, at the, I was, uh, after working out, I was getting dressed in the locker room, and the, this little guy, he's quite small,

Bill: That's pretty little. You

Marty: he's like, He cleans the whole rec center. Like I don't see anybody else doing it. And, and he does a great job and, and he's there probably from four in the morning till midnight every day. And he comes by and, and he's just like whistling and happy and everything. And I said, hello and happy Thanksgiving. And he said, you know what? Secret to live in a great life is I'm like, Whoa, okay, what he said, acceptance, except the way you are and the way you're meant to be. And and it's you stop trying. He's telling me to make more money. Stop trying to cram more experiences into life. It's about being who you're meant to be. I was like, wow, this is quite, quite a sermonette. Thank you. Right. But there was, you know, the same, the same lesson in a

Bill: Beautiful. Wow. All right. Shall we shift?

Marty: Sure.

Bill: All right. We've got, we can take about another maybe 15 to 20 minutes here. Uh, these are some questions that, uh, Um, apparently the muse was there during this coaching group session that I told you about where everybody agreed that self care is what we needed to be talking about.

Marty: Yeah.

Bill: This will often happen. Um, I've, I've learned and been trained as a coach that rather than analyzing somebody and telling them about themselves based on my opinion and my theory about them, which is never helpful as far as I'm concerned is in my opinion. Rather than doing that, help the client to discover for themselves what's true about them. And the best way to do that is to ask questions. And, and so these questions came to me. And, um, I, I also have a, an organizational part of me that, that wants, that knows how to manage around asking the questions. And then in a group of seven or eight people, how do you collect the answers? And how do you, how do you let the people that, that are considering the questions know? Um, process the answers. So I thought for today, what I might do is ask those very same questions that I asked my group. And, and you and I can kind of discuss a little bit, um, our just knee jerk responses to these questions. And I would just invite the listener, uh, of this episode possibly to do the same thing even to the extent that if you want to do a little exercise that will help you get some clarity around self care, you might just plan on hitting the pause button after I have asked the question to do to do some journaling and then hit play again so you can hear the rest of our conversation about it. There's, I believe there's going to be five questions. And, uh, the first one is, what happens inside when I mention the words self care? Now, you and I have been talking about self care, so we've kind of informed what might happen inside. Uh, but in my group, we had just acknowledged self care is what we want to talk about today. So before we just talk about it, and let me, rather than me lecturing about self care, let me just ask you, what happens inside when I mention the word self care?

Marty: Well, it's very interesting because, because what happened inside me was that I immediate recognition. Well, If it's, if it's my self care is in any way at odds with your self care or anybody else's, it's not gonna work like, you know, like, if I'm just taking care of me, me, me, me, me, and you're dying next to me, or, you know, your leg is bleeding, or, you know, you're, you're, you're just miserable. Then I, I'm not totally taking care of myself. So what happened when you asked the question was, right? Because then I've got this miserable person next to me. I can't be happy. So I'm not taking care of myself. I want the people around me to be taken care of. If I'm going to feel fully taken care of. So when you asked the question, this sort of energy buoyed up in me and enveloped the whole planet, self care.

Bill: Oh, what a, what a gorgeous answer. Wow. Marty. Thank you. That was just really moving.

Marty: Mm

Bill: Well, and it really does also reflect what you were saying in the first half of this episode that if we're self care, here's, let me summarize what I think I learned and heard from you was that self care actually would, would be an honoring of, of our true authentic self.

Marty: hmm.

Bill: And yeah, in your example, how could you possibly think of that as self care if you're buying yourself. Okay, let's go ahead and move on to the next question unless there's more that, that you're inspired to say about this because the group that I'm facilitating is, has its roots and foundations built in the internal family systems model. This is a group of people that have come to me and, and said yes to my offer, which is to support them in their recovery.

Marty: Mm hmm.

Bill: And before they are invited into the group, I have a conversation with them just to vet them and make sure that this is the right place for them to be. Many people that are attracted to the internal family system model really need to be in therapy for a while first, if not on an ongoing basis, not because there's anything wrong with them or that they're broken, but because that there have been wounds from the past that need to be healed. And that's why they're so attracted to IFS in the first place.

Marty: Right.

Bill: IFS is a compassionate approach to helping. People heal, but there comes a time when there's been enough healing that has taken place where, uh, the person can begin to recognize that there's something possible beyond what they've experienced so far in life.

Marty: Mm.

Bill: In other words, the survival mechanisms that we've employed so as to survive have served us. They've done their jobs. We have survived. But as we heal, and our parts begin to relax a little bit, they recognize, I guess I don't have a job. I guess as, as, as, as I'm being healed, I don't need to be critical of my host anymore, the part might say. I don't need to be critical of Bill. So if I'm not going to be critical, and that's all I've ever done, what job do I, can I possibly have now? Well, I, that's when it's time to switch from therapy to coaching. That's when it's time to say to that part, boy, do I have a job for you? Because I've got a vision. I've got an aspiration. I have, I'm up. I want to be up to some things beyond survival. I don't want to just get by anymore. I don't want to settle for crumbs anymore. I, I want to begin to imagine that life could be more than what it has been. And that I hope is, uh, you know, often it's that, that, that spark comes from that true authentic self that that's at our core, our essence, that spark of truth. Life can be more. I'm not here to suffer and survive. I am because of these life circumstances, but maybe it's these life circumstances that have pitted me against them so that I could master and recognize that I, that I have mastered survival and I certainly know how to suffer and survive while I'm doing it, but wouldn't it be cool if I could also have a little whipped cream on top of that pumpkin pie?

Marty: Right,

Bill: So tomorrow's Thanksgiving, I got to throw that in.

Marty: reminds me of something Leslie says in a workbook that she and I wrote, um, called Traction. Um, this is not available publicly right now, but you could call me. I'll I'll get it to you. But anyway, the point is, she said, you know, that that's, that's a transcript. That central part that is critical of us. I call it your secret identity. It's not bad and wrong. You know, we, we want to integrate as opposed to, you know, separate. But, but it has limited our fulfillment. It's so that there's. You can get a certain amount of fulfillment. Like it drives you to do certain things to go back to our discussion about being driven from something that actually from outside, but it feels inside you're driven, you know, to like make more money or, um, or, you know, get people's approval, what have you. And that has served us in certain ways. You know, it's not to be denied. Every part is. Has its place and is, and is honored to be honored and dignified. And when it's not running the show, then the, the, the, you know, there are a lot, you recognize how limited your fulfillment has been. Like there's so much more possible when it doesn't have to go through that part's needs. If

Bill: Well said. So the question, the, the second question then is, the first question was, what happens inside? When I mentioned the word self-care, the second question is what parts showed up when you wrote about self-care? And that question is asked because this is a group of people that are learning how to use the IFS model. Now for the casual listener that's not interested in IFS, you can kind of skip that question. Uh, another way to ask the question for people that really aren't so much interested in parts do wanna increase self-awareness would be to ask how was I influenced? What internal influences that I, that I noticed and experienced when I considered self care? Oh, I noticed that I felt kind of critical of the idea of self care. I noticed that I imagined having a pedicure and a bubble bath and how, and discounted that. I noticed that I, that I feel guilty that because I have a thought that I should practice better self care. So that would be a very worthwhile. Pursuit is to journal

Marty: don't mind, say the question one more time.

Bill: what parts showed up when you wrote about self care is the original question and now I'm changing that thought, excuse me, that question to reflect for, for folks that really aren't so interested in parts to ask, what did I notice happened inside? What were the distinct influences that I can notice? There's going to be thoughts, there's going to be body sensations. There's going to be maybe impulses, there's going to possibly be emotions. There might even be actions that you take.

Marty: You might, uh, for me, A domain of life, a part of my life, if you will, showed up as one where I'm taking, I'm not taking as good care of myself as in others, and it's around my income, frankly, I hate to say this on television, but there it is, right? That's the part. It's also related to my secret identity, right? That's the part that, you know, like I'm in great health, I, you know, I take really good care of myself in lots of other ways. Spiritually practicing and all of that. But the part that's, you know, when you said self care, what, what, that's the part that went, eh, takes better care of yourself.

Bill: financially, is that what you're talking about? Security and finances. Okay. Yeah. And I also heard it for those that like the idea of parts. I also heard a comparing part. I don't do as well as others is a comparing part.

Marty: I didn't say that, did I?

Bill: Oh, I thought I did. I thought I heard that. So maybe I just plugged that in for myself. I am comparing myself to others and then deciding that I'm not doing as well and that I should be doing better.

Marty: Mm-hmm

Bill: So I have a comparing part. So, the next question is, seems to be departing from the first, first questions, the first two. And that is, who do you have positive, unconditional positive regard for? Who do you have unconditional positive regard

Marty: Wow. Who, who do you have unconditional positive regard for?

Bill: Isn't that a great phrase?

Marty: Hmm,

Bill: Cheryl Strayed, Tiny Beautiful Things is the book that I, that I really have been hearing. I've heard that before, but she refers to it in a, in a particular story in her book. About being like a guidance counselor in a middle school with these girls that whose lives are just horrible

Marty: hmm,

Bill: and they come into her office and she just holds them in an unconditional positive regard and it just transforms her and them. It's such a beautiful story and a beautiful book, but so that was the inspiration for this question. Who do you have unconditional positive regard for?

Marty: I like that answer. Children. Children, I mean, 'cause they're, they're innocent and just curious and, and love with life. So it's, um, but I, I would say my spiritual teacher is the first person I, I thought of.

Bill: Okay, let's go with that one. And if you're answering these questions, you might want to pause and ask her answer for yourself. But when you're back, then you'll hear us continue with this. The next question, which is now that you've got that, an individual pick one of the individuals that you just thought of,

Marty: Mm-hmm

Bill: ask this question. What do you want for them? What do you want for these people that you have unconditional positive regard for?

Marty: Well, the, the one, the person that I thought is not wanting anything,

Bill: Well, let's not assume that they don't already have what, what it is that you would want for them. If they had what you want for them, what is it they'd have? Or what experience or what state of being?

Marty: Yeah, my gratitude.

Bill: You'd want them to feel appreciated by you?

Marty: Yeah. But see, that's not something that she needs at all. She's, that's, she knows that she's appreciated. But that is what I would want, you know, it's just a, you

Bill: I'm thinking, I'm thinking of my wife, my adult children, my grandchildren. And what I want for all of them is joy, peace. The satisfaction of a life well lived. I want all of that. So the next question then is, there's two more questions. I don't know how many I said there were, I think I might've said five. There's a total of six. How would you like them to care for themselves? That may not work for your spiritual teacher. She,

Marty: Right, right. That's sort of a different kind of example.

Bill: can I tell you my answer?

Marty: Sure, please. Right?

Bill: I would want them to do what they want to do. I would, I would want them to, to live life unconstrained. I would want them to live as their true authentic self.

Marty: Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think that would be my answer as well to any you, no matter who it was. Mm-hmm

Bill: So in, in the context of self care then, what does that look like? Does that, does that look like any specific actions? I'm going to meditate 10 minutes a day, or I'm going to go for a run five days a week. Am I going to, Make sure I never eat sugar, you know, it's kind of back to the Elm tree. The Elm tree doesn't probably worry about its diet or exercising or

Marty: Mm-hmm

Bill: buying themselves a nice sweater. It's, it's,

Marty: So you're talking about the self care for that, for these, these people that, that we have unconditional positive regard for what they should do in

Bill: well, the next question brings it back home again. So given what you recognize for the people that you hold unconditional positive regard for and how you would want, what do you want for them and how would you want them to care for themselves? Now, what are you realizing about how you currently care for yourself? And what I got out of this exercise. Was I really take really good care of myself? Somebody asked me here about a month, month and a half ago, and it might have been even in a podcast episode Maybe with Hans or Ryan or one of them It's seemed like in one of the episodes somebody somebody else brought up self care and I'm hearing things like meditation and reading and Several things that I don't that I do or don't do but But I felt somewhat detached and disconnected from the conversation at that point. So this exercise brought me back to the fact that I am living as my true authentic self the vast majority of the time and that I'm doing what I want to do and recognizing that if I'm doing something and I am not enjoying as much as other things, it's because I've chosen it and that I, that I am at choice at any point. All of that. Is evidence of self care doesn't really point back directly to any particular one practice that I do or don't do or need to do or need not to do.

Marty: I think for me, uh, it's, I'm very hard on myself. I'm not, I don't really. Accept myself the way I am. That's where I'm not aligned with purpose. That's where I'm not taking care of myself. I'm being hard on myself. I'm being separate from myself. I'm making myself wrong. I should be better or different. Not accepting. That's, that's, that's where it is for me.

Bill: So that inner critic is actually blocking access to self is would be the way that I would reflect back to someone in IFS. And so maybe we get compassionate and curious about that inner critic and understand what is it trying to do for you and doesn't realize. Maybe ultimately we get to the point where the part's open enough to hear does it realize that the negative impact is actually having, because at one time that that strategy made the most sense, maybe it doesn't make sense anymore.

Marty: Right? Yeah.

Bill: Last question before we close, which is if you've gotten insights from this conversation, whether it was in the first half, Marty talking about the concepts and the ideas around self care and that self care is leadership or by answering or considering these questions that I've been asking. Thank you. Those insights, they're great to have, aren't they? However, if we don't take action to integrate those insights, you might as well just smoke a doobie. It's, you know, you've lost the high, it's gone. So what are the insights that you've gotten? What are you taking away that you didn't bring into listening to this episode? And what are you going to do with those insights? What difference is it going to make in your life? Are you going to talk to somebody? Are you going to? What does that look like? Of course, I don't need to know, you can't answer me, but, uh, I do appreciate you listening to this episode. This has been a great conversation, Marty.

Marty: And I love that as the, as the send off, like, what are you going to do about it?

Bill: All right. Right. Self care. What are you going to do about it?

Marty: You're right. That's great. Thank you.

Bill: Thank you, Marty.